ohmi

I have never suggested that they are.

ohmi

[Hebrew] Christianity dates to the beginning :-

The Torah speaks of Israel's re-unification into a holy nation of priests , with thus a single king instead of being two nations with two kings :-

Ezekiel spells it out about the Christ literally :-

Ezekiel 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

Christianity was born long before Jesus came then .

Rome gave the name 'chrsitianity' to its paganised non-hebraic version of a state religion , a mockery of the original invented just to keep the people quiet [the 'opium of the people'] which necessarily had to allow multitudes of sinners to join without ever becoming saints , unlike the original :-

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Christians then are the few saints who go by that narrow way [Matt 7:14] in this life in order to become the perfect priesthood who minister in the redemption of the many when sinners are resurrected [the second resurrection, in the new earth]

The corrupt 'christainity' of sinners thus began with Rome's realisation that it had to control [anihilate] the rise of the [Hebrew] Christianity of the saints and indeed plays a major role in history [and the future up until the return of Christ Jesus who deposes the imposter in his place in what is by then a unified world religion with a living false 'god' at its helm , not unlike the Roman Empire whose 'popes' were original Roman emperors who were obliged to declare themselves gods]

The date thus depends on which 'chrsitianity' one is referring to ...

storytime

Are you sure it wasn't disgruntled militant Jews who saw their existing political parties as corrupt? Why would they have thought Rome to have any part of their decision making?

When did the Jews adopt the term "Christ"?

ohmi

The majority of Jews, then , as now, rejected Jesus as being the Christ [Messiah , anointed king of Israel]

Rome was the dominant power , controlling most of the lands known to it and in particular in charge of the Holy Land .

The prophesied anointed king come to re-unite Israel into a single holy nation of priests [Ex 19:6] is called from the Hebrew, 'Messiah' , but in Greek the word is rendered 'Christ' ... thus Jews who speak Greek know the 'Messiah' as 'Christ' , the words mena the same , the 'anointed' [meaning the king , since kings are anointed in Israel ... thus so was Jesus :-
Mark 14:9 "Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her."]

storytime

Yes, the story says that many Jews rejected Jesus claim as Messiah. These were the anti-christs. But this isn't where Christianity began because Jesus didn't teach another doctrine other than what he perceived to be truth in his Judaism.

We read about Paul's declaring those who departed from him were not of him, and these rejecting Paul's gospel he said were not of Jesus. These who went back to Jerusalem were James, Peter, and all the twelve, and even Barnabas turned from Paul. So Paul was left with Timothy and Luke(?). From this time we see a new religion forming, that of Gentiles and not Jews per se. Paul declared that since the Jews refused to believe, he'd take the gospel to the Gentiles who would receive it gladly. But it seems that Paul based his new gospel on the lies of Peter that said, "salvation had come to the Gentiles".

Paul was given audience with a Roman governor who coined the name "Christian". There were Jews who vowed to kill Paul for preaching what they believed to be a false doctrine. Being Jewish, it was probably deemed blasphemy.

After Paul was taken into custody by Roman soldiers and his appeal to Caesar, Paul was given his own "hired house", meaning his own servants. Does this sound like an actual situation that Romans would have provided for a Jewish preacher? Why was Paul not returned to Jewish lawmakers (priests) the same as Jesus?

Why is there no records from Roman government? Who would have been listed as senators, governors, lawyers, in those days?

storytime

Rome may have been the dominant power in those days, however, it seems that an alliance with Jews at Jerusalem was enacted to soften militant behavior. Herod was the "king" and tetrearch appointed to keep peace in the region. But still, Rome did not dictate belief of Jews in their religion. Rome may have hampered Jewish rituals etc., but their belief went unhindered.

storytime

Why do you refer to land as "Holy", when it was the people whose tradition deemed them "holy"? Israel was people, not land. The land was called "Canaan".

ohmi

[quote=storytime;5455778] As I pointed out before, Jesus did not accept Judaism, he criticised it repeatedly for its unlovingnesses ... the old covenant FAILED to redeem more than a few 'friends of God' [only one in every seventh generation from Adam becomes a friend of God, doing what God commanded , up until Jesus brought in the new covenant with a remnant of Israel ... but even this brings only 144,000 to redemption in two millenia ]

Those who give up unlovingness completely in this life do so under the new covenant, not under corrupt Judaism.

As Paul points out, salvation has come to everyone , to the Jews FIRST, but also to the gentiles later :-

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Neither Paul , nor Peter lying ... Jesus confirms the LATER salvation of the gentiles himself in Rev 7:9-10

Yes, but he also said who are Christians and who are not, that those who remain sinners are NOT following Christ, not Christians :-

2 Timothy 2:19 ... Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

The Jews, following corrupt Judaism, indeed believed that Jesus and Paul [and the other Christians, the Hebrew saints ] were all blaspheming by calling themselves 'sons of God' :-

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Paul was a Roman citizen , with thus many rights protected by Roman law ...

There are.

All would have been Roman citizens.

Iasion

Hiya,

Well,
2 Timothy was forged in the name of Paul.

How is that "departing from iniquity" ?


Q.

ohmi

Jesus says the same thing , as reported in Matthew ... sinners simply cannot follow Christ [by definition] :-

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

David says the same thing :-

Psalms 37:27 Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.

Peter says the same thing :-

1 Peter 3:11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

...