Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ben C Smith · 08-23-2008, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

"This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true." (Jn 21:24, KJV)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Thank you. Do you know of any more first person eyewitness testimonies in the Gospels?

First person but not really eyewitness testimonies:

"It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, that thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed." (Lk 1:3-4, KJV)

"The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,..." (Acts 1:1, KJV)

I think those three are it.

John 19.35 is of a piece with John 21.24. It reads:

He who saw it has borne witness; his testimony is true, and he knows that he tells the truth, that you also may believe.

This is not first person, of course, but it claims that the beloved disciple witnessed the crucifixion of Jesus and alongside 21.24 makes the claim that he wrote his eyewitness experience(s) down.

Ben.

aa5874 · 08-23-2008, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Can we all agree that third person accounts are not eyewitness accounts?

No. Ancient eyewitness historians such as Thucydides and Josephus often wrote of their own participation in the events in the third person.

Ben.

But, Josephus identified himself as the author of his writings, so when he refers to himself as Josephus, he means I Josephus.

In effect, it is not really third person but first.

However, on the other hand, the authors of the NT are actually anonymous, and they wrote about events without showing any participation, identifying themselves or giving any information about how is it they were able to get information about this Jesus.

Amaleq13 · 08-23-2008, 07:44 PM

Good catch, Ben.

neilgodfrey · 08-30-2008, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

"This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true." (Jn 21:24, KJV)

Reminds me of the conclusions of Thumbelina:

Quote:

To him the bird sang, "Chirp, chirp! Chirp, chirp!" and that's how we heard the whole story.

and The Princess on the Pea:

Quote:

As for the pea, they put it in the museum. There it's still to be seen, unless somebody has taken it.

There, that's a true story.

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08-23-2008, 07:44 PM	#13
Amaleq13 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 7,816	Good catch, Ben.

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