Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Johnny Skeptic · 08-22-2008, 10:44 AM

I request that readers list the eyewitness testimonies in the Gospels that they are aware of.

bacht · 08-22-2008, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

I request that readers list the eyewitness testimonies in the Gospels that they are aware of.

I'm guessing that Mark was alive during the fall of Jersualem, maybe some of his Little Apocalypse came from eyewitness accounts?

Cesc · 08-22-2008, 11:06 AM

How would anyone be able to know what is eyewitness accounts in four Gospels that are written in Omniscient Point-of-View?

Johnny Skeptic · 08-22-2008, 12:03 PM

What I would like are references of supposed eyewitness accounts, book, chapter, and verse, where the writer speaks in the first person. Can we all agree that third person accounts are not eyewitness accounts?

Toto · 08-22-2008, 12:10 PM

A third person account could in theory be based on eyewitness testimony, just as a first person account could be fictional.

No one seriously contends that the gospels contain direct eyewitness accounts. Some claim that there is eyewitness testimony behind the gospels, but it is second or third hand

Amaleq13 · 08-22-2008, 12:36 PM

"This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true." (Jn 21:24, KJV)

Johnny Skeptic · 08-22-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

"This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true." (Jn 21:24, KJV)

Thank you. Do you know of any more first person eyewitness testimonies in the Gospels?

Amaleq13 · 08-22-2008, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Thank you. Do you know of any more first person eyewitness testimonies in the Gospels?

First person but not really eyewitness testimonies:

"It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, that thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed." (Lk 1:3-4, KJV)

"The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,..." (Acts 1:1, KJV)

I think those three are it.

mountainman · 08-22-2008, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

I request that readers list the eyewitness testimonies in the Gospels that they are aware of.

The Eusebian You-Beaut Look'em-Up Four Eyewitness Cross-Reference, Concordance and Average Bet Guidelines to the sudden appearance and sudden disappearance of a new universal (within the Hubble Limit) Roman imperial god

Hook, line and sinker Johnny.

Best wishes,

Pete

Quote:

The Canon Tables of Eusebius

The Harmony of Ammonius suggested to Eusebius, as he himself tells us in his letter, the idea of drawing up ten tables (kanones) in which the sections in question were so classified as to show at a glance where each Gospel agreed with or differed from the others. In the first nine tables he placed in parallel columns the numbers of the sections common to the four, or three, or two, evangelists; namely: (1) Matt., Mark, Luke, John; (2) Matt., Mark, Luke; (3) Matt., Luke, John; (4) Matt., Mark, John; (5) Matt., Luke; (6) Matt., Mark; (7) Matt., John; (8) Luke, Mark; (9) Luke, John. In the tenth he noted successively the sections special to each evangelist.

The usefulness of these tables for the purpose of reference and comparison soon brought them into common use, and from the fifth century the Ammonian sections, with references to the Eusebian tables, were indicated in the margin of the manuscripts. Opposite each section was written its number, and underneath this the number of the Eusebian table to be consulted in order to find the parallel texts or text; a reference to the tenth table would of course show that this section was proper to that evangelist. These marginal notes are reproduced in several editions of Tischendorf's New Testament.

Eusebius's explanatory letter to Carpianus was also very often reproduced before the tables

Ben C Smith · 08-23-2008, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Can we all agree that third person accounts are not eyewitness accounts?

No. Ancient eyewitness historians such as Thucydides and Josephus often wrote of their own participation in the events in the third person.

Ben.

08-22-2008, 10:44 AM	#1
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	Eyewitness testimonies in the Gospels I request that readers list the eyewitness testimonies in the Gospels that they are aware of.

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08-22-2008, 11:06 AM	#3
Cesc Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 322	How would anyone be able to know what is eyewitness accounts in four Gospels that are written in Omniscient Point-of-View?

08-22-2008, 12:03 PM	#4
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	What I would like are references of supposed eyewitness accounts, book, chapter, and verse, where the writer speaks in the first person. Can we all agree that third person accounts are not eyewitness accounts?

08-22-2008, 12:10 PM	#5
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	A third person account could in theory be based on eyewitness testimony, just as a first person account could be fictional. No one seriously contends that the gospels contain direct eyewitness accounts. Some claim that there is eyewitness testimony behind the gospels, but it is second or third hand

08-22-2008, 12:36 PM	#6
Amaleq13 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 7,816	"This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true." (Jn 21:24, KJV)

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