Jeremy Pallant

The problem with prophecy as a whole, and Christian prophecy in particular, is its obvious failure. Oh, it's easy to take some phrase from a holy book, call it a prophecy and then declare it fulfilled, but if prophecy is to be taken seriously, more modern examples should be capable of duplicating the alleged success of their revered scriptures.

As it happens, one of my interests is the history of armageddon prophecy. Inevitably, this generally focuses on Christian prophecy. Guess what? In the last 2000 years, not one single such prophecy has proven accurate.

So. Which Christian out there wants me to take their prophecies seriously?

Oh, and if you do, please explain why I should take you seriously, and yet all your fellow Christians over the last 2000 years were wrong.

Toto

While prophecy in general can be part of BCH, the scholarly level and the approach here seems better suited to ~Elsewhere~

Jeremy Pallant

My apologies, Toto. Didn't mean to lower the general tone of BC&H.

Toto

It's not always about you.

I was talking about the level of scholarship in the OP, and the rather hysterical post that revived this dead thread.

Jeremy Pallant

It isn't? Damn! :banghead:

BolshyFaker

What happens Witness if you die before the propehcies come 'true'? Will you renounce Christianity on your deathbed?

Also, what happens if some political event happens that makes the propheices being fulfilled unlikely? for example, Sharon is currently engaged in withdrawing from part of what is claimed as God's land. How can Israel rise again if it is missing chunks from the bit God originally promised??

One thing - if the Israelis suddenly decide to demolish the Temple on the Mount and declare their intention to build their own temple, then I will have to reconsider. Since such a course of action is at such a low probability for a democracy it would represent a challenge to my beleif that all of Revelations is bunkum.

If that did happen though, I think I would convert :angel: and then head to the nearest large warzone in an effort to be killed doing good works before the fucking scorpions with the heads of men (etc) appear to sting the crapola out of everyone! :wave:

PS - SMILE

The Witness

In case you missed it, earlier in the thread I said to move it to the appropriate place. The reason I posted on this board was because of a suggestion from, apparently, a member of this board who is also a member at the board I usually go to... which I did not know. For a while it looked like the other board might shut down, so I posted here. As you can see from my lack of posts, it's not like I'm wasting bandwidth.

Your prophecy argument is all well and good. I guess the scripture that hits home the most for me are the words of Jesus, found in Matthew 24. Verses 15-21, 29-34

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, whoso readeth, let him understand
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
####
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The fact is that Jesus has not returned, and he said to look for certain things to happen before he does. So that's what us Christians have always done. Down the centuries whenever we saw events that lined up with endtime prophecies, we tell everyone. Some have done so for monetary gain, but sincere Christians do so for the benefit of someone who might not know what the prophecies say. What is the statistical probability that the events listed in the Israel Challenge will happen? Spin says it already happened, so I guess it's 100%. So where is Jesus then? Either there is no Jesus, or the prophecies were incorrect, or Jesus will indeed return to this planet.

But wait, Spin says the prophecy doesn't pertain to Jesus... and to that I can only point to the passage in Matthew 24. Jesus spoke of the Daniel prophecy as a future event. The abomination of desolation(whether it already occured or is yet to occur) can only take place in the Jewish temple, on the Temple Mount, in Jerusalem. Currently the Dome of the Rock (Muslim temple) stands there. So if a 7 year peace deal is brokered, which allows the Jews to rebuild the temple, and halfway through the 7 years the one who brokered that treaty claims to be God and stops the daily sacrifice, and he imposes a system that requires everyone to have a "mark" in order to participate in the economy... I'll meet you here to discuss it.

Actually, another reason I posted on this board was because it takes the contrary position. Some of the logic minded people here, that have a doubt that the Jesus story might be true, could be forced to rethink their position as time goes on.

If this thread is closed, so be it. No harm, no foul. My usual message board is alive and well, so from now on I will only check in here periodically to see if this thread has any new posts. I promise not to bump it. I want to leave you all with this:

No doubt a lot of Benny Hinn types have done serious damage to the Jesus cause. For that I am ashamed. On the other hand, you can't deny there are Christians, and I mean a large number, who are sincere. The bottom line is that I would say 99.9 percent of the members here have heard the Jesus story, and rejected it. The Bible says, not in so many words, that it's the believer's mission to share the gospel with an attitude of love. Once that is done, it's up to you to believe. Just because it's cliche doesn't mean it's not true: "that's why they call it faith"