Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Javaman · 05-21-2004, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faith

But God says the evidence of His existence is written on our hearts and in our minds. He says you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart.

Good deeds or no, you must have faith and you must want to find Him to be saved.

Why would a god who loves all of humanity make it difficult to see the "truth"? If belief in any of the 30,000-odd sects of Christianity mean you'll get to go to heaven, that still leaves more that half of humanity being sent to hell! And that's being generous as some of those sects have diametrically opposed ideas about what is necessary for salvation.

It shouldn't take being untrue to my nature to get saved... but, as I think you'd attest to, Faith, I don't get to make the rules, God does... pity.

crazyfingers · 05-21-2004, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faith

God does know your heart. Living a good life and loving others is part of Jesus' message and certainly shouldn't be discounted.

But God says the evidence of His existence is written on our hearts and in our minds. He says you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart.

Good deeds or no, you must have faith and you must want to find Him to be saved.

Faith is not a path to knowledge. Faith is anti-knowledge because it relies on nothing at all. It requires no evidence or logic. It is baseless belief.

Faith is not a virtue.

Starboy · 05-21-2004, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyfingers

Faith is not a path to knowledge. Faith is anti-knowledge because it relies on nothing at all. It requires no evidence or logic. It is baseless belief.

Faith is not a virtue.

Agreed, it is a special pleading to continue to hold specific knowledge even if there is good reason to discard it. Faith only increases in quantity the more dedicated you are to holding on to this specific knowledge in the face of increasing reasons to discard it. It is dishonest. It makes liars of the faithful. The greater the faith the bigger the liar. Not only is it not a virtue it is an anti-virtue.

Starboy

sharon45 · 05-21-2004, 05:22 PM

As jesus makes faith out as a real strength, "jesus doesn't talk like a god, he doesn't act like a god, but he did 'say' he was god and that 'I' need to 'know' that jesus is who he 'says' he is. Even though he doesn't seem like god, I have to have faith that he is or 'I' will 'die in my sins'"

Starboy · 05-21-2004, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharon45

... "jesus doesn't talk like a god, he doesn't act like a god, but he did 'say' he was god and ....

Where does Jesus say that he is god?

Starboy

Faith · 05-21-2004, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javaman

I suppose you're also saying your god cares not if his creations are good, only obedient.

Good non-believers get hell?

Bad believers get heaven as long as they say they're sorry and really love Jesus?

As I said, God knows your heart. And I don't believe any so-called Christian who goes to church twice a week and acts the part yet isn't truly Christ-like is any more likely to reach Heaven than a non-believer is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starboy

Faith only increases in quantity the more dedicated you are to holding on to this specific knowledge in the face of increasing reasons to discard it. It is dishonest. It makes liars of the faithful. The greater the faith the bigger the liar. Not only is it not a virtue it is an anti-virtue.

Hmm. Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

sharon45 · 05-21-2004, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starboy

Where does Jesus say that he is god?

Starboy

Exactly, He never really does. That is why I put the whole thought into quotes, and the 'says' as I did, because most christians really believe that he did say he was, but it only remains their opinion that he did.

Starboy · 05-21-2004, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharon45

Exactly, He never really does. That is why I put the whole thought into quotes, and the 'says' as I did, because most christians really believe that he did say he was, but it only remains their opinion that he did.

Not only do they 'know' Jesus said he was god but they think they have the power to tell god how to run the universe.

Starboy

sharon45 · 05-21-2004, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faith

As I said, God knows your heart. And I don't believe any so-called Christian who goes to church twice a week and acts the part yet isn't truly Christ-like is any more likely to reach Heaven than a non-believer is.

One would have to be in contradiction to be truly 'christ-like' that can't logically be done.

Javaman · 05-21-2004, 06:27 PM

Dangling questions:
{deleted} - 'cause we've derailed this enough.

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05-21-2004, 05:22 PM	#84
sharon45 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Southwest, US Posts: 8,759	As jesus makes faith out as a real strength, "jesus doesn't talk like a god, he doesn't act like a god, but he did 'say' he was god and that 'I' need to 'know' that jesus is who he 'says' he is. Even though he doesn't seem like god, I have to have faith that he is or 'I' will 'die in my sins'"

05-21-2004, 06:27 PM	#90
Javaman Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Nebraska Posts: 1,708	Dangling questions: {deleted} - 'cause we've derailed this enough.

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