Freethought & Rationalism Archive

spin · 12-26-2012, 11:30 AM

Someone wanna talk about the am-ha-aretz, the shit in this sandwich, so to speak, the jacks and jills who were busy with their noses down trying to survive, until troublemakers forced a war?

outhouse · 12-26-2012, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

Someone wanna talk about the am-ha-aretz, the shit in this sandwich, so to speak, the jacks and jills who were busy with their noses down trying to survive, until troublemakers forced a war?

Sure.

Would residents of a rebuilt Sepphoris fit this bill?

semiopen · 12-26-2012, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by semiopen

The slaves are part of the myth. Aside from that the issue is interesting because of the logistical issues, I'm not aware of a case of another relatively trivial myth detail being so successfully busted.

Im not sure we can know one way or the other.

Had there been slaves helping, building the ramp as required. We know these Zealots would have murdered them in a blink of a eye, after their previous seige killing 700.

While the desert did perserve many aspects over the last 2000 years, im not sure Jewish slaves would have left much to detect.

What sources do you have there were no slaves?

Unrestricted access to JSTOR might be required to prove this.

However I have posted several links that support the no slaves proposition.

The Siege of Masada: Piecing Together the Puzzle

Quote:

The Roman siege works, including eight camps that housed approximately 8000 troops and a circumvallation (siege) wall, still are clearly visible encircling the base of the mountain.

They found eight camps for the legion and none for the slaves.

Quote:

Our excavations brought to light low stone walls over which the Roman troops pitched leather tents. The floors of the tent units were covered with broken potsherds; altogether we recovered 240 kilograms (about 530 pounds) of pottery. The overwhelming majority of the pottery belongs to local types of storage jars, a finding that sheds light on the provisioning of the Roman troops during the siege.

Because Masada is in the desert, supplies (mainly food and water) were likely brought in skins, bags, and woven baskets from other parts of the country, transported overland on pack animals or on small boats across the Dead Sea. Upon reaching the camps at Masada, the supplies were emptied into large ceramic jars for storage.

The supply issues would have made the presence of slaves expensive, especially considering that the rank and file soldiers of the legion were not exactly aristocrats and perfectly capable of building the thing themselves.

On the other hand, the only suggestion that slaves were used was a brief mention in the cruise ship documentary and my daughter's anecdote about her tour guide's explanation.

One thing that surprised me on my cruise was the complete lack of credibility of tour guides. Our Jerusalem guide said that Christopher Columbus was definitely Jewish and that Jesus always looks the same (in art work) because of his likeness on the

Veil of Veronica.

outhouse · 12-26-2012, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semiopen

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Im not sure we can know one way or the other.

Had there been slaves helping, building the ramp as required. We know these Zealots would have murdered them in a blink of a eye, after their previous seige killing 700.

While the desert did perserve many aspects over the last 2000 years, im not sure Jewish slaves would have left much to detect.

What sources do you have there were no slaves?

Unrestricted access to JSTOR might be required to prove this.

However I have posted several links that support the no slaves proposition.

The Siege of Masada: Piecing Together the Puzzle

They found eight camps for the legion and none for the slaves.

Quote:

Our excavations brought to light low stone walls over which the Roman troops pitched leather tents. The floors of the tent units were covered with broken potsherds; altogether we recovered 240 kilograms (about 530 pounds) of pottery. The overwhelming majority of the pottery belongs to local types of storage jars, a finding that sheds light on the provisioning of the Roman troops during the siege.

Because Masada is in the desert, supplies (mainly food and water) were likely brought in skins, bags, and woven baskets from other parts of the country, transported overland on pack animals or on small boats across the Dead Sea. Upon reaching the camps at Masada, the supplies were emptied into large ceramic jars for storage.

The supply issues would have made the presence of slaves expensive, especially considering that the rank and file soldiers of the legion were not exactly aristocrats and perfectly capable of building the thing themselves.

On the other hand, the only suggestion that slaves were used was a brief mention in the cruise ship documentary and my daughter's anecdote about her tour guide's explanation.

One thing that surprised me on my cruise was the complete lack of credibility of tour guides. Our Jerusalem guide said that Christopher Columbus was definitely Jewish and that Jesus always looks the same (in art work) because of his likeness on the

Veil of Veronica.

I would trust tour guides as much tv shows on aliens.

I understand your point.

As far as slaves go, I just dont think it can be proven one way or the other. They would have been housed outside like animals leaving little behind to be discovered.

There are walls around some of these tent camps, is that to keep something out? or something in?

And the link you provided states nothing about slaves at all.

Im 50/50 on this, and cant see enough evidence one way or the other. I surely dont put weight on Josephus accuracy, but I do place a certain amount of weight on Romans using slave labor to expidite the process.

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12-26-2012, 11:30 AM	#51
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	Someone wanna talk about the am-ha-aretz, the shit in this sandwich, so to speak, the jacks and jills who were busy with their noses down trying to survive, until troublemakers forced a war?

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