jakejonesiv

70 CE

According to Tacitus, Hist. V, John Boanerges used deceit to attack the temple, and killed Lazarus.
Then, the Romans approached, and war was seen in heaven. It was coming in the clouds! Wonderous signs were seen. The temple was illumintated by a heavenly beam, the doors to the shrine were thrown open, and with the angelic voice trumpeting, the gods departed. The mysterious prophecies of the priests of the coming of Vespasian and Titus had been fulfilled.

Jake Jones IV

Charles Wilson

Step 1: Open mouth.

Step 2: Insert foot.

Of course!

Using modified Atwillian logic, "The probability of there being two sets of jewish/Roman historical events that had exact correlations to events in Josephus and internal Bible stories, if Josephus is true, is fast approaching zero."

Can't go beyond the data too much!

Thanx, JJ!

Charles

Charles Wilson

Mishmarot:

"Low probability stuff:"

One of the puzzles for me in this whole JvA thing has been the 8 CE
part. Why did the authors of the Jesus Stories "wait" until 8 CE to
try their second attempt at "The Call to Honor for Israel?"

I have a possible answer, but it might put me in with the
full-mooners and numerologist types.

I'm going through Eisenman and Wise, _Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered_
(Review soon) and I came across these items:

p. 106:

At Qumran, "The calendar is purely solar, based on a particular
understanding of the Creation account found in Genesis. In its
exclusive reliance on the sun, it stands in stark contrast to later
Rabbinic Judaism which followed a lunisolar calendar of 354 days
relying mainly on the moon."

p.107:

"In all their timekeeping, the authors of the Qumran calendars
reckoned not only by months, but also by the rotation of the
priestly courses (mishmarot). The courses would come into Jerusalem
for service at the temple for one week, then rotate out as the next
group arrived to serve. Qumran texts relied on this 'eternal cycle'
not only for their calendar units, but also for their chronography
and historiography (see Priestly Courses III [This refers to
individual translations of various fragments in the book]). Every
sabbath, month, year and feast bore the same name of a priestly
family.

"The priestly rotation required six years before the same group
would be serving once again in the same week of the year..."

We have at least a tenuous alignment then, for the rotation of the
Priests to be called to Jerusalem for service at the Temple. The
"same" group would be called to service every six years. Which
means 2 sets of cycles gives 12 years, which would explain why the
Jesus group would be in Jerusalem again. The first rotation would
still have to be explained, as Archelaus is still ruling. Did the
Priests of this group come around to the Passover in ~ 2 CE? Did the calculation of Passover bring another Course in for the 2 CE Passover and the next calculation bring back in the 4 BCE group?


On the subject of "It took 46 years to build this Temple"


1. Previously, when I have come across dates - Jairus' daughter is 12 years old, The woman with the 12 year
issue of blood, the woman bent over for 18 years, the man by the
pool ill for 38 years, I have simply (and simplistically) subtracted
the years from 8 - 12 CE and spelunked around for events that might
match up. They always did.

2. "Simplistically" may not be enough. Another symbol I see often, the references to clothes, is shown to be more complicated. The "Blind Man" is healed by Jesus and he throws down his cloak. Is he renouncing the Priesthood? Repudiating his Herodian ties? Both? Or is it something else? Below, the subject is the Temple being built in 46 years. 8 - 46 = -38. What happened in 38 BCE +/- ? The Battle of Gandarus?

Another alternative is to consider the subject , or rather, what the passage could reasonably refer to, as something that was stated in anger in 4 BCE just before the Slaughter.

3. (-4) - (+46) = - 50. Or, if you're one of the "add one year to
the BCE stuff" kind of a guy (or gal), then -49.

What happened in 50 BCE?
From Enc. Brit., (Online ed.):
"Aristobulus 2:

died 49 BC
last of the Hasmonean (Maccabean) kings of Judaea.

On the death (67 BC) of his mother, Salome Alexandra, he succeeded
to the throne, defeating his brother and rival, John Hyrcanus II
(q.v.). When Hyrcanus sought help from the Nabataeans, the Romans
under Pompey intervened and subjected Judaea to their rule (63 BC).
After an unsuccessful attempt to regain power in 56, Aristobulus was
sent to Rome as a prisoner and remained there until his death."

4. From the Jewish Encyclopedia, re: Aristobulus 2:

"Appeal to Rome.

This easily acquired peace did not long endure. Hyrcanus was
prevailed upon by Antipater to induce Aretas, king of Arabia, to
make war against Aristobulus. In consequence of the victory of
Aretas, added to the abandonment of Aristobulus by the Pharisees-the
most powerful party in Jerusalem-who had gone over to Hyrcanus,
Aristobulus was compelled to withdraw to the Temple Mount. The
distressing siege which followed, about which most wonderful stories
are told (see Ḥoni ha-Me'aggel and Hyrcanus II.), led to no decisive
result. A third party-Rome-was therefore called in to unravel the
complicated situation, and the effects of this intercession proved
not only injurious to the brothers, but in the end brought about the
destruction of the Jewish state."

5. The statement is not about the Temple at all. It is about the government of the "Usurper" Herod!

We now have a greivance sheet that goes back farther than any I had
compiled to date - the death of Aristobulus 2, the last Hasmonaean
king. The clincher: "A third party - Rome - was therefore called
in to unravel the complicated situation, and the effects of this
intercession proved not only injurious to the brothers, but in the
end BROUGHT ABOUT THE DESTRUCTION OF THE JEWISH STATE."

6. Although I am quite happy with the result, the technique at this stage is awkward. I originally just slammed through the math without realizing that I had had worked from 4 BCE instead of 8 - 12 CE as I usually do. I "got the right answer." The Jesus Stories are stories of a political party marginalized by deadly State force while attempting to make a comeback. The group has a long history, going back to the Coup that ended the Maccabean rule and ended with the destruction of Judah and the absorption of what was left into the Roman State Machine.

This will require some thought.

Thank you,

Charles