Freethought & Rationalism Archive

stephan huller · 08-11-2012, 12:51 AM

I know I have referenced this topic before but since Roger is doing some work on his blog with respect to the Life of Mar Aba where 'Marcionite' is referenced as mrqyona (pl. mrqyony). I thought I might mention that this reference to 'Marcionite' in Syriac is strangely identical to the earliest mention of the name Marcion in Greek - Μαρκίωνα (Justin Apology 26, 58). This doesn't mean anything in its own right. It's just curious that a generic 'Marcionite' is identical with the Greek name Marcion. There's more to this but that's a start. http://books.google.com/books?id=hmN...syriac&f=false

aeebee50 · 08-11-2012, 07:23 AM

I do not see a lot of uses for the name of Judas, unless someone is referring to a goat, but Marcion seems to keep his name going through the Marcionites. Seems like Marcion's crime was more serious, than Judas.
Judas Iscariot
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08539a.htm

Marcion
http://theresurgence.com/2010/09/15/...retics-marcion
http://stephanhuller.blogspot.com/20...cret-mark.html

stephan huller · 08-11-2012, 07:36 AM

Yes there are parallels here. Judas is clearly connected with a pre-existent group (= the Jews). But here's something else no one else has noticed. The Aramaic form of the name mrqyona can be further broken down into Mark (mrq) and John (yona). Many people have speculated about the gospel writers knowledge of this form of the name John when Simon is described as the son of an individual of this name. From my blog:

If the name Yoh.anan (John, Iôannês) were used in Samaritan Aramaic and Samaritan Hebrew, it would be written as in Masoretic Hebrew YOD-VAV-H.ET-NUN-NUN and pronounced YOD-u-‘AYIN (sic!)-a-NUN doubled-a-NUN Yû‘annan, accented on the second syllable. (You will see that I can now make apostrophes go in either direction). Note that the pronunciation of the ‘ayin sound is never weakened in Samaritan Hebrew and Aramaic if the sound occurs at all in a word. (An original H.et or ‘Ayin sound can end BOTH end up as the sound ‘Ayin or the sound of ’Alef or can show up as doubling of the vowel, This doubling of the vowel, that is, a lengthening of the vowel with two tone, level followed by rising, and a primary and secondary stress, is common in the Masoretic pronunciation as well. It can occur in English, but I can’t explain in writing). There would be a diminutive but I can’t say for sure what it would be. Yanna is a possibility. So is Yanni. So is Yûna. This last is the likeliest. In this case, the spelling and pronunciation would be the same as in the name Jonah, Masoretic pronunciation Yôna, Samaritan pronunciation Yûna.

aeebee50 · 08-11-2012, 07:49 AM

You always have the answers. Thanks.

Grog · 08-11-2012, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

I know I have referenced this topic before but since Roger is doing some work on his blog with respect to the Life of Mar Aba where 'Marcionite' is referenced as mrqyona (pl. mrqyony). I thought I might mention that this reference to 'Marcionite' in Syriac is strangely identical to the earliest mention of the name Marcion in Greek - Μαρκίωνα (Justin Apology 26, 58). This doesn't mean anything in its own right. It's just curious that a generic 'Marcionite' is identical with the Greek name Marcion. There's more to this but that's a start. http://books.google.com/books?id=hmN...syriac&f=false

Could you link to Roger's article?

Toto · 08-11-2012, 08:48 AM

Roger's blog links to his other websites:

http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/

Roger Pearse · 08-11-2012, 11:35 AM

I think Stephan has in mind these posts, although the meat is really in the comments:

http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2...comment-283801

http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2...es-christians/

Context is:

http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2...sassanid-iran/

http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2...-aba-i-maraba/

http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2...-my-diary-238/

But I've been generally looking at the "Life" of Mar Aba I, finding out about him, and trying to find some way to get his "Life" into English. No luck so far.

08-11-2012, 12:51 AM	#1
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	On the Name Marcion I know I have referenced this topic before but since Roger is doing some work on his blog with respect to the Life of Mar Aba where 'Marcionite' is referenced as mrqyona (pl. mrqyony). I thought I might mention that this reference to 'Marcionite' in Syriac is strangely identical to the earliest mention of the name Marcion in Greek - Μαρκίωνα (Justin Apology 26, 58). This doesn't mean anything in its own right. It's just curious that a generic 'Marcionite' is identical with the Greek name Marcion. There's more to this but that's a start. http://books.google.com/books?id=hmN...syriac&f=false

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

08-11-2012, 07:23 AM	#2
aeebee50 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 5,810	I do not see a lot of uses for the name of Judas, unless someone is referring to a goat, but Marcion seems to keep his name going through the Marcionites. Seems like Marcion's crime was more serious, than Judas. Judas Iscariot http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08539a.htm Marcion http://theresurgence.com/2010/09/15/...retics-marcion http://stephanhuller.blogspot.com/20...cret-mark.html

08-11-2012, 07:36 AM	#3
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Yes there are parallels here. Judas is clearly connected with a pre-existent group (= the Jews). But here's something else no one else has noticed. The Aramaic form of the name mrqyona can be further broken down into Mark (mrq) and John (yona). Many people have speculated about the gospel writers knowledge of this form of the name John when Simon is described as the son of an individual of this name. From my blog: If the name Yoh.anan (John, Iôannês) were used in Samaritan Aramaic and Samaritan Hebrew, it would be written as in Masoretic Hebrew YOD-VAV-H.ET-NUN-NUN and pronounced YOD-u-‘AYIN (sic!)-a-NUN doubled-a-NUN Yû‘annan, accented on the second syllable. (You will see that I can now make apostrophes go in either direction). Note that the pronunciation of the ‘ayin sound is never weakened in Samaritan Hebrew and Aramaic if the sound occurs at all in a word. (An original H.et or ‘Ayin sound can end BOTH end up as the sound ‘Ayin or the sound of ’Alef or can show up as doubling of the vowel, This doubling of the vowel, that is, a lengthening of the vowel with two tone, level followed by rising, and a primary and secondary stress, is common in the Masoretic pronunciation as well. It can occur in English, but I can’t explain in writing). There would be a diminutive but I can’t say for sure what it would be. Yanna is a possibility. So is Yanni. So is Yûna. This last is the likeliest. In this case, the spelling and pronunciation would be the same as in the name Jonah, Masoretic pronunciation Yôna, Samaritan pronunciation Yûna.

08-11-2012, 07:49 AM	#4
aeebee50 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 5,810	You always have the answers. Thanks.

08-11-2012, 08:48 AM	#6
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Roger's blog links to his other websites: http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/

08-11-2012, 11:35 AM	#7
Roger Pearse Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 4,370	I think Stephan has in mind these posts, although the meat is really in the comments: http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2...comment-283801 http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2...es-christians/ Context is: http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2...sassanid-iran/ http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2...-aba-i-maraba/ http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2...-my-diary-238/ But I've been generally looking at the "Life" of Mar Aba I, finding out about him, and trying to find some way to get his "Life" into English. No luck so far.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.