spin

There is a bit of a difference between two years of stored grain and 13, don't you think?


spin

arnoldo

Well, the argument is that Nebby did attack the Island Tyre for 13 years without a navy, In any event the city did fall and the princes of tyre were sent into exile to babylon where they probably met with the princes of israel which Nebby also brought to Babylon. Note the following sources:

You will notice that after the year 573 all the rulers of Tyre were under the control of foreign powers, again the prophecy is fulfilled unless your obsessive compulsive about the streets and walls of Tyre.

Kings of Tyre: Under control of Babylon 573 - 539 BC

And here is a list of the princes of Tyre sent into exile into babylon.

To Babylon.......573-539


Yup, the Tyre Kings and Princes sent into exile in Babylon sure thought Zekey was a false prophet, NOT. BTW, the Jews were also in babylon at the time and had accused Zekey of being a false prophet, just like you are doing today
Oh, that's right, the prophecy failed because it was mainly about the walls and streets of Tyre not the relgious,political, and economic system that was ruling there at the time of Zekey.

WVIncagold

I have a strong doubt that a 13 year siege existed at all and what really existed was a détente with a garrison of Nebbys army stationed at
Tyre. My point if it took 13 years your not performing a siege....you moved! Regardless of (mainland as you assert there had to be one even there is no record of it) or island without an Navy you are militarily rendered useless as a mans nipples. You cannot hold a city that is highly mobile (by sea) with a drudgingly slow (on foot) army. As to the question of water,where does Tyre get its water now? Its an island with wells as every major cities has in this time period. What i am arguing is there was no siege for any length of time. it would of bankrupted the treasury of Nebby and it would of caused Nebbys kingdom to fall and open it to invaders. there is a finite amount of manpower and money to every kingdom. the purpose behind war is to QUICKLY as possible get the spoils. the riches of Tyre would not of offset the amount of gold spent trying to take it for 13 years only to watch all those riches your wanting float down river to another port. A peace treaty would of been struck very quickly resulting in said garrison and the exchange of royal family being sent as a ransom guarantee, this would of been much more mutually beneficial for both city states. regardless of location. Since Tyre was NEVER destroyed my hypothesis is a much more likely scenario then the non existent made up mainland argument which still does not address the problem of no Navy.
Arnoldo you can keep arguing all you want but with accounting for any naval power the siege is nothing more than an inconvenience for the population of Tyre. If no one can go by land to the city they can go by sea, which is faster and more economical and cost less then by land. Without a Navy the siege is a fantasy of unremarkable proportions. Without a Navy all Nebby did was send his troops the beach for 13 years. Without a Navy all nebby did was shut off his own city from receiving supplies from Tyre. Since Tyre was an Island at the time i guess they could of taken those siege weapons (rams) put them in the water and floated over to the island.

Minimalist

Hypothetically? Absolutely. Hypothetically I could agree to there being legions of scantily clad goddesses supplying bottles of Perrier to the thirsty townspeople. I wouldn't want to try to prove that scenario, though.

I don't know that the geology of a coastal settlement in general is such that "springs" would be a normal occurence. If we have a geologist on the board who would care to offer an opinion that would be useful.

In any case, I suggest that it is important to remember that Tyre's primary raison d'être was its ports, 2 of them and both on the island. The coast of the Levant is quite regular...much like the west coast of Italy...and good, natural ports were a rarity. It was an age when ships put into port at night, if one was availabe, or beached themselves until morning, if one was not. Tyre's income and importance was derived from its maritime positioning not from any sort of mainland expansion. Recall that Herod the Great spend a pile of money to build a port at Caesarea Maritima and got the investment back in spades because of the lack of ports in that region. Very wise investment on his part. Tyre had two natural ports but they were both on the island.

WVIncagold

no it fails because Tyre NEVER fell never to be rebuilt! EVER! not once! A place to spread nets. never to exist anymore. The infrastructure of Tyre was still in place.
So your saying that the port on the mainland was where they dropped off supplies and people picked up and dropped off stuff. Great i can give you that its reasonable. What that was was a port and not the city of Tyre. It is like your calling Manhattan new York State! Thats your logic in reverse. if this imaginary city was taken by Nebby then all the citizens had to do was go to the island and shoot him the bird. Again no Navy you don't achieve shit. You do not take on a major naval power with foot soldiers when they occupy an island. You main weapon is neutered.

WVIncagold

hey maybe their gods sent down mana from heaven and quails for them as well as turning the sea water to fresh?

spin

No, it didn't fall, as you've been told. Tyre entered into an unfavorable agreement.

That's what we've been telling you.

No fall of Tyre, no destruction. No flattening of the island. The prophecy gets an F.


spin

JayW

Whether it's believable o you or not,it happened. Have you ever laid seige to walled city? It would not have been easy. Tyre was an island when Nebuchadnezzer laid seige to it. There was no such thing as a weapon th could knock down walls. The invading armies had to build ramps to the top of high walls,and move seige machines up the ramps while the inhabitants threw spears and heavy objects at them. When the Romans laid seige to Jerusalem, their sege machines did no good. They had to build higher machines. They advanced on the city a few feet at a time by clearing a path for the machines. The couldn't use bull dozers. They had to build a huge earth ramps to get the siege machines up to the top of the walls. How long wold it take to build a huge earthen ramp without heavy equipment. Nebuchadnezzer had no army at Tyre, until Tyre made a treaty with Him following a 13 year seige. There was no such thing, at that time, as a ship that could carry a seige machine. They were built on site. They could bot be carried across country. A siege machine ws not a ram. It was a very tall usually triangle shaped tower with a very long arm capable of slinging giant boulders.
Tyre was destroyed by Alexander after spending 7 months building a causeway. He killed 10,000 inhbitants and put 30,000 into slavery.
The confusion may come from the fact that part of Tyre was built on the mainland, but was not the main part of the city. Taking the mainland part of the city meant nothing,as long as the island was the the cetner of government.

Minimalist

Probably doesn't want to hear that "god" didn't wipe out the Assyrian army with a plague, either. Hezekiah submitted to Assyrian rule and bought the Assyrians off.

arnoldo

Wrong, your understanding of the prophecy gets an F. Still obsessing about the physical walls and streets of Tyre, huh? Take a look at Isaiah 23

Sorry despite your FLATLAND comprehension of prophecy it is not merely fulfilled at a single point in time in but at multiple points in time. Remeber zekey wrote that MANY NATIONS would rise up and attack Tyre like waves of an ocean. :wave: