sugarhitman

The Tyre prophecy is not a failed one. It is so accurate that I marvel that people call it a failed one. Critics see it as a failed prophecy because they incorrectly has Nebby destroying Tyre when the Text says no such thing. In fact no nation is to destroy Tyre completely, because God says Tyre would be destroyed when He brings it down deep under the sea. The nations are only to diminish Tyre, and Nebby is but one of them.


In Jeremiah who prophesied before Ezekiel we are told that Tyre would SERVE Babylon, and certainly not destroyed by him:

"Thus says the Lord to me Make for yourself bonds and yokes, and put them upon your neck, and send them to the king of Edom, and to the king of Moab, and to the king of the Ammonites, and to the king of TYRUS....And all nations shall serve him (Nebuchadnezzar), and his son, and his son's son, until the very time of his land comes." Jeremiah 27

Tyre is here foretold to be in servitude unto Babylon, and not destroyed by it. In Jeremiah 25 we are given a glimspe of Aremegeddon and guess what Tyre is still in existence when this event comes to reality:

"For thus says the Lord to me; 'Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations to whom I send you, to drink it." Tyre is listed as one of the kingdoms to drink from this cup. Jeremiah makes it certain that this refers to the last Great War:

"For, lo, I began to bring judgement on the city (Jerusalem) which is called by My name, and should you go unpunished? You shall not go unpunished, for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, says the Lord of hosts."

"...The Lord shall roar from on high, and utter His vioce from His Holy habitation....against all the inhabitants of the earth.

"A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the Lord has a controversy with the nations, He will plead with all flesh; He will give them that are wicked to the sword, says the Lord."

"Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a Great Whirlwind (A Major Hurricane? that raises from the coasts?) shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth. And the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth...." All Qoutes from Jeremiah 25 This is the Great Day of the Lord....and Tyre is one of the nations to be present.

Now lets turn to Ezekiel 26 to the Tyre prophecy. In verses 7-8 Nebby is seen coming with land based weapons they are:
1.Chariots (a vehicle used to tread land and not water)
2.Mount (A structure that is built so as to enable the besieging army to climb over defensive walls)
3. engines of war against the walls (Battering rams, There was no way to attack the walls of the island portion of the city with battering rams becase there were no land outside the island fortress to make such a thing possible. This is why Alex had to install battering rams onto his ships to attack the island walls because there was no land outside the island walls. And Alex is credited as the first to do such a thing. If Nebby did not have such ships with battering rams than how could he attack the island walls?)

Note not once did Ezekiel list sea based weapons that would have been vital in the sieging of this island fortress, not one. Also Ezekiel knew that the island city could not be attacked with these devices, so why did he list such weapons? Because he has Nebby attacking the mainland city. Now critics will say that was Ushu, Old Tyre whatever. But the fact is Ezekiel does not seperate the mainland city from Tyre and this is the city Nebby attacked and defeated. This was the beginning of the diminishing of Tyre.

Here is a list that Nebby would do as "He":
1. Destroy the settlements outside the city walls (the mainland city also had walls as described in the book of Joshua 19)
2.Break down the towers
3. breach the walls (Now a breach is only a gap or hole in something, this shows that Nebby was not to destroy the walls as he does the towers. In fact Zek says the walls of Tyre would shake AFTER Nebby enters the city through the breached gate. Proof that Nebby was not to completely destroy the mainland city)
4. Enter the breached gates with his chariots and horemen.
5. Tread all the streets of the mainland city
6. kills civilians and soldiers.

In a later chapter God tells Zek that Nebby did not plunder Tyre. So in veres 12 of ch. 26 "He" turns to "They" that begans with the plundering of Tyre. (Which also proves that Zek who was aware that Nebby did not plunder Tyre would not list him under they who did plunder Tyre. Think about it if Zek was a false prophet why would he still have Nebby doing all those things after the fact that he knew he didn't? why not go back and rewrite your failed prophecy? Zek seperates He from They to seperate Nebby from the the other nations Here is the list of actions that "They" would do:
1. verse 12 They would plunder Tyre and destroy the walls and pleasent houses (Note the difference between breach the walls which was done by He, and the complete destruction of the walls done by they).
2. They would LAY (lay means to build, Zek is here telling us that something was to be built in the water!!) Tyre's stones wood, and even her dirt in the midst of the water (note not in the sea but in the water which can be correctly called because it lies between the mainland and the island!)

It is a fact that Alex did lay these things in the water to build the causeway linking the island to the mainland. This also shows that by saying laying YOUR stones and timber and dirt in the water that the mainland city was indeed considered by Zek to be inseperable from Tyre. And another thing all nations that came after Babylon did plunder Tyre!

Now here are the things God says He would do to mainland Tyre....personally.

1. Never allow the mainland city to be built again after a final destruction at the hands of the nations.
2. The location of this city would become like the top of a rock where fishermen would spread their nets on. (Fishermen do spread their nets on the mainland and this city is gone with nothing remaining of it that can show us where it was located because of this we have to speculate about which spot it occupied)

Here is what God says will happen to the island city which He will do:
1. Unlike the mainland city it would be uninhabited and desolated when it is brought down deep under the sea "When I shall make you a DESOLATE city, like the cities that are not INHABITED; when I shall BRING UP THE DEEP UPON YOU, and GREAT WATERS shall COVER YOU." (Now some people including christians believes this was done when Alex layed the mainland city in the water,(which is not the deep) but in chapter 27 which is completely of the island city we find an interesting prophecy "In the time when you will be broken BY THE SEAS in the DEPTHS OF THE WATERS your merchandise and all your company (inhabitants) in the midst (living) of you shall fall (with it in the sea)" and again " Your riches, and your fairs, your merchandise, your mariners, and your pilots, your calkers, and the occupiers of your merchandise, and all your men of war, that are in you, and all your company which is in the midst of you, shall FALL INTO THE MIDST OF THE SEAS IN THE DAY OF YOUR RUIN." Now this did not happen when Alex layed the mainland city into the water.)


The latter judgement proves without a doubt that no nation was to completely destroy Tyre including Babylon. Why would God say that it would be destroyed by Him by bringing it down into the deep if it is already destroyed by Nebby? What would be the point of destroying something not there. And how can one place be a place to spread nets on if it is deep under the sea? These judgements are clearly directed at two locations. The mainland city was destroyed by the nations which diminished Tyre. Tyre is to endure in this state until the final judgement which is the bringing down into the deep sea....the Pit. Tyre is not a failed prophecy but accurate 100% accurate. Which proves that God really do lives. A good thing if you are saved bad if not.....:wave:

Johnny Skeptic

God did not inspire the Tyre prophecy, or any other prophecy. That is because if a God really wanted to convince everyone to believe that he can predict the future, he would easily have been able to do that thousands of years ago. No rational God would inspired disputable prophecies when he could easily inspired indisputable prophecies.

If Micah had predicted that the messiah would rule a heavenly kindgom instead of an earthly kingdom like Micah misled the Jews to believe, and had predicted that the messiah would heal people, and that the messiah would be crucified, buried, and rise from the dead in three days, and that Pontius Pilate would become the Roman governor of Palestine, and that Herod would become the King of Judea, anyone who has just a modest amount of commen sense knows that most Jews would have been convinced that Jesus was the messiah. No other conclusion is possible. Why would Jews have rejected a messiah like that who would have indisputable fufilled a number of Old Testament prophecies.

No reasonable motives regarding why God make disuputable predictions = no God of the Bible.

sugarhitman

It is the love for God that creates faith and not belief alone. Belief without faith means absolutly nothing. The Jews in the desert believed alright but their love and confidence in God was lacking. Which i'm sure you can indentify with. :wave:

patchy

"Loving" God is precisely the same thing as "respecting" Harry Potter, "appreciating" Santa Claus, and "fearing" Long John Silver. He's a literary invention, sugar-- and not even a particularly good one. (He would have benefited, for instance, from a half-decent continuity editor between the Old and New Testaments.)

Grow up and face reality. Here it is 2008--believing in this god or any of the other ones just looks stupid; there's no reason to keep on doing it.

Minimalist

Looks really good for a place which was "never" supposed to be "re-built".

Hard to shake the nagging feeling that god fucked this one up, just based on the photographic evidence.

JayW

And you know this to be true because?

And you know this to be true because?

arnoldo

Yeah, the city of Richmond, Virginia exists today also. I guess the Capital of the Confederacy continues to exist also, right? I find the following anaylysis insightful

Source cite: PROPHECIES: IMAGINARY AND UNFULFILLED
Farrell Till

The reason Ezekiel didn't revise the prophecy is because it wasn't wrong. The only error lies in the imagination of the biblical minimalist.

neilgodfrey

I kind of feel for the poor people of Tyre today. I mean, it's hardly as if the whole world is watching what happens to them with a view to seeing if God will kill them all or not; so what would the so-called final fulfilment of God's prophecy prove? He fulfilled it but only believers noticed? But they believed anyway!

Or will they all die so believers can go out and tell the world that God really exists? But by that time, according to this prophecy, God will be here and everyone will know that already.

It seems to me that if anyone believed this to be a true prophecy and they had any compassion at all they'd be raising huge money to support an effort to save all those poor inhabitants of Tyre from their final fate. I presume that's what you are involved in doing?

makerowner

sugarhitman, you've already started two other threads on this exact subject in the past couple months; did you think we'd forget that you've already had your ass handed to you a dozen times over?

To the mods: do we really need to have yet another thread on this subject?

Baalazel

Well why didn’t you say this when Tyre first came up man? The prophecy that Tyre would be destroyed is not a failed prophecy because Tyre hasn’t been destroyed yet which is proof that the prophecy is 100% accurate and so God really, really exists and you’ll get yours as soon as Jesus comes back, nana nana boo boo.

Makes so much sense I guess I’ll just have to become a Christian again or die of shame for having doubted this kind of BS for the last thirty years.

Baal