Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Johnny Skeptic · 10-31-2005, 05:12 AM

I hope that Lee Merrill and bfniii will make posts in this thread.

Diogenes the Cynic · 10-31-2005, 06:14 AM

This is an easy one. No.

Anything else we can help you with.

(I know you weren't really asking me, but what the hell)

general_koffi · 10-31-2005, 08:21 AM

"I was sick, therefore I prayed to get better. I got better, so therefore it's a miracle."

A lot of theists accept that as evidence... :huh:

John A. Broussard · 10-31-2005, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by general_koffi

"I was sick, therefore I prayed to get better. I got better, so therefore it's a miracle."

A lot of theists accept that as evidence... :huh:

There's a local gecko who strays across my monitor screen. Unfortunately, it lost its tail after an encounter with my cat.

I'm praying for his tail to be restored.

Will keep you posted.

Amaleq13 · 10-31-2005, 08:42 AM

I think it would be wise to specify the sort of evidence as that which does not require faith to be believed.

Johnny Skeptic · 10-31-2005, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

I think it would be wise to specify the sort of evidence as that which does not require faith to be believed.

Evidence can be faith-based or non-faith-based. Both issues need to be discussed.

Amaleq13 · 10-31-2005, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Evidence can be faith-based or non-faith-based. Both issues need to be discussed.

What discussion is possible with regard to evidence that requires faith to be believed? You either have faith in it or you do not. End of discussion.

The only evidence that can be of any interest to a person without faith is that which does not require faith to be believed.

John A. Broussard · 10-31-2005, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

What discussion is possible with regard to evidence that requires faith to be believed? You either have faith in it or you do not. End of discussion.

The only evidence that can be of any interest to a person without faith is that which does not require faith to be believed.

Well said.

In discussing a belief in the supernatural with anyone, there isn't much point in arguing if they say, "I believe, period."

Toto · 10-31-2005, 11:26 AM

I don't see any Biblical Criticism here.

Shall we try Science and Skepticism?

orac · 10-31-2005, 03:28 PM

There is conclusive evidence that there have been cases where people have recovered from almost 100% lethal disease after praying to Jesus, although pretty close to 100% of all people who pray to Jesus don't recover from the same diseases.

There is also conclusive evidence that there have been cases where people have recovered from almost 100% lethal disease after praying to Allah, although pretty close to 100% of all people who pray to Allah don't recover from the same diseases.

Oh dear.

That can't be good.

If the first fact stated there counts as evidence for Jesus, then the second shows that Allah is god. This can't be right, can it?

The funny thing is that evangelists for one religion can always trot out stories of miracle cures that science can't explain and scream and curse when it's suggested that they haven't proven their actual claim, yet they have no trouble at all dismissing the same stories when presented by evangelists of another religion.

Hell, praying to a stuffed teddy bear has the same success rate as praying to any god you care to name.

If the occasional unexplained recovery is proof of the power of prayer, then god is currently stuffed into a plastic bag in my closet with his guts ripped out and I know one dog who won't be going to heaven.

(If we could teach people what the term "control group" means then we'ld be making progress, but I'm not optimistic there.)

10-31-2005, 05:12 AM	#1
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	Today, is there any evidence that the Christian God heals people and animals? I hope that Lee Merrill and bfniii will make posts in this thread.

10-31-2005, 06:14 AM	#2
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	Today, is there any evidence that the Christian God heals people and animals? This is an easy one. No. Anything else we can help you with. (I know you weren't really asking me, but what the hell)

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10-31-2005, 08:21 AM	#3
general_koffi Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa Posts: 10,887	"I was sick, therefore I prayed to get better. I got better, so therefore it's a miracle." A lot of theists accept that as evidence... :huh:

10-31-2005, 08:42 AM	#5
Amaleq13 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 7,816	I think it would be wise to specify the sort of evidence as that which does not require faith to be believed.

10-31-2005, 11:26 AM	#9
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I don't see any Biblical Criticism here. Shall we try Science and Skepticism?

10-31-2005, 03:28 PM	#10
orac Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 2,082	There is conclusive evidence that there have been cases where people have recovered from almost 100% lethal disease after praying to Jesus, although pretty close to 100% of all people who pray to Jesus don't recover from the same diseases. There is also conclusive evidence that there have been cases where people have recovered from almost 100% lethal disease after praying to Allah, although pretty close to 100% of all people who pray to Allah don't recover from the same diseases. Oh dear. That can't be good. If the first fact stated there counts as evidence for Jesus, then the second shows that Allah is god. This can't be right, can it? The funny thing is that evangelists for one religion can always trot out stories of miracle cures that science can't explain and scream and curse when it's suggested that they haven't proven their actual claim, yet they have no trouble at all dismissing the same stories when presented by evangelists of another religion. Hell, praying to a stuffed teddy bear has the same success rate as praying to any god you care to name. If the occasional unexplained recovery is proof of the power of prayer, then god is currently stuffed into a plastic bag in my closet with his guts ripped out and I know one dog who won't be going to heaven. (If we could teach people what the term "control group" means then we'ld be making progress, but I'm not optimistic there.)

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