stephan huller

That the Severians rejected Acts (Euseb. HE 4. 29). That the Manichaeans also did (August. Epist. 237). Since the Manichaean interest in the Apocryphal Acts was shared by the Encratites it may be possible to suggest that the Severian rejection extended to the Encratites.

Bernard Muller

To Stephan,
It is wrong to say that because a "father" does not mention some Christian texts or someone, he did not know about them. There were no rule forcing a Christian writer to indicate what Christian writings or personna he knew about but did not want to utilize for whatever reasons. As for Justin, he probably just wanted to keep his "canon" very short (with material drawn from gMark, gLuke & gMatthew) and was treating other texts as "uncanonical".
For example, much earlier, Papias "uses testimonies from the first Epistle of John and from that of Peter likewise" (Eusebius HofC 3, 39, 16). Did Justin tell us he knew these two texts? No. (1 John & 1 Peter are not on the List. How convenient!)

That "canon" got greatly enlarged by Irenaeus 20 years later. And do you think if someone wrote some Epistola Apostolorum in 170, he would say the Big Day of the second coming on earth happened 20 to 14 years earlier?

Cordially, Bernard

aa5874

Tatian seems aware of Paul?? Tatian's writing does NOT support early Pauline letters

1. Even Apologetics claimed Tatian was a disciple of Justin.

2. Tatian's Teacher, Justin wrote NOTHING of Paul.

3. Tatian wrote NOTHING of Paul in his "Address to the Greeks".

4. Tatian's Teaching Against Marriage is NOT Found in the Pauline letters.

5. Tatian is associated with the Diatessaron--a combination of Gospels.

6. Justin's Memoirs of the Apostles also appear to contain a combination of the Gospels.

Irenaeus "Against Heresies"Eusebius' Church HistoryJerome's "De Viris Illustribus" It is clear that the Pauline letters to Churches was UNKNOWN up to the time of Tatian.

stephan huller

The best argument that Acts was a second century text - Hegesippus did not know Acts.

stephan huller

True. It is difficult to know what to make of that piece of evidence. That's why I changed my statement to add the word 'seem' to weaken the force of the original post. There is something there. It is difficult to know what it is.

aa5874

Acts of the Apostles is one of the best evidence to support the argument that there were NO Pauline letters up to c 62 CE.

The author of Acts wrote about the Activities of a character called Saul/Paul from the time when he was a Persecutor up to c 62 CE and did not mention Paul as a letter writer.

stephan huller

Many people have argued that Justin did not use Acts which would make sense if he didn't know and use Paul.

stephan huller

Unless someone can find some evidence to the contrary it would seem to me that the tradition of Justin (= the Encratites) did not use Acts, the Pastorals but had a strange relationship with Paul. I know the evidence with regards to Justin and Acts is ambiguous but I am wondering if a number of odd passages in Irenaeus Book Three pertain to the Encratites.

Bernard Muller

From Epistola Apostolorum:
But he [resurrected Jesus] said unto us: Go ye and preach unto the twelve tribes, and preach also unto the heathen, and to all the land of Israel ... And unto the others also will I give my power, that they may teach the residue of the peoples.
31 And behold a man shall meet you, whose name is Saul, which being interpreted is Paul: he is a Jew, circumcised according to the law, and he shall receive my voice from heaven with fear and terror and trembling. And his eyes shall be blinded, and by your hands by the sign of the cross shall they be protected. Do ye unto him all that I have done unto you. Deliver it (? the word of God) unto the other. And at the same time that man shall open his eyes and praise the Lord, even my Father which is in heaven."
Whoever wrote that knew about 'Acts'.

Cordially, Bernard

aa5874

An examination of writings attributed to Justin Martyr readily shows that Justin Martyr did NOT acknowledge any writing called the Acts of the Apostles and did NOT make references to such a book or characters like Paul and Barnabas.

It is easily seen that there is a Big Black Hole of activities of the supposed Jesus cult and Paul from the Ascension of Jesus to the time of Simon Barchocheba or about 100 years [c 33-133 CE].

This is PRECISELY what is expected when the Jesus story and Paul were INVENTED--there would be NO ACTUAL activitity of Jesus, and No Awareness of the Pauline letters.