spin

Anyone who would like to sustain the Essene Hypothesis for some unknown reason might do themselves a favour and check out this article, which looks at how Qumran may have been used.

If anyone has any doubts, I might be able to help.


spin

RaymondR

This is very interesting.

This summer I had read a book called "Beyond the Essene Hypothesis-The Parting of the Ways Between Qumran and Enochic Judaism". It sort of wet my appetite for literature from that time period. (As a side note, this is the book that started my deconversion process.)

Thanks for the link!

Rick Sumner

Don't tell spin things like that, that's the Groningen hypothesis. It makes him want to scream

Regards,
Rick Sumner

Toto

Beyond the Essene Hypothesis-The Parting of the Ways Between Qumran and Enochic Judaism (searchable online at Amazon)

Hm, James Patrick Holden gives it 5 stars. But if it led to your deconversion, what can I say.

TySixtus

The Hiram Key and The Second Messiah are both two very good books on the subject, searchable on Amazon. The Hiram Key started my deconversion, as well.

Ty

rlogan

The idea of the Essenes running a factory is pretty cute.


the Temple Library.

How exciting...

spin

Naaa. It's Boccaccini and he's off a limb.

Naaa, sorry, TySixtus, they don't have much to do with Qumran at all.

Bin sayinnit feather last seven years, though I think the idea was introduced by Rengstorf in the 60s and championed by Golb in the 80s & 90s. Just that they think the dss were deposited in 68 CE, not at the time of Pompey.


spin

Amen-Moses

So what do you think it was? Factory, Roman Villa, Abandoned Fort, Village or maybe a mixture of all of them?

I always wonder at the way it is described as "out of the way" when at the time it was almost smack bang on a major trading route to the east. Specifiaclly it was a coming together point for traders from Egypt, Petra and Syria. From the mid 1st century BCE to the second half of 1st century CE this was the Roman Empires border area and a launching point for several major invasions of the fertile crescent area.

IOW at the time it was one of the busiest places on the planet!

By the 3rd century CE though the empire had moved on, the border then being way over in Iran somewhere and the southern border down in Yemen.

Amen-Moses

spin

At the time Qumran was built, the Hasmonean kings were building defensive positions/forts down the Dead Sea coast. Qumran is the biggest settlement on the north west coast and the closest to Jerusalem, so the builders of the forts further south at least must have known about Qumran. However, it is most likely that it was built as part of the Hasmonean defensive network like the others. You're right that it definitely isn't an out of the way spot, as it was close to the wadi which led from the sea to Jerusalem to the north, so it could control shipping. It was also in line of site of the fortress of Machaerus in Jordan and of Jericho. It was also on the coast from the big fortress Hyrcania. So, everything points to an originally military use and the aqueduct suggests a state constructed site.

However, when the Romans conquered Judea, the fortresses were abandoned, leaving Qumran open for reuse (given the potential assured by the aqueduct) and the increase in workshops on the site suggests that it was converted into a commercial centre. A vast cache of pottery was found in loc. 86/89 making Essene fetishists claim that it must have been a pantry and that the long room next door was a refectory. This gets a doh! for stupidity, because refectories had the kitchen next door and the Qumran kitchen was quite a distance away. Besides, loc. 114 aslo featured a large cache of pottery (nowhere near as large as the other loc., but sufficient to show storage of pottery). Qumran obviously produced pottery for sail down the coast and perhaps further afield. There may have been production of balsam on site as well.

So, two principal phases of usage: first as a military outpost, then as a commercial centre.

The Roman villa idea was an important though erroneous idea. The archaeologist who put it forward was working on the de Vaux notes being published for the site and numerous incongruities with the notion of a sectarian site led to the development of this Roman villa hypothesis, which prtesented data not considered before and led to the more reasonable "manor house" proposal of Hirschfeld, which I have called less colourfully a commercial centre.


spin

offa

I am a construction worker, I do not have time to dwell on a good argument. However, my thesis is that Qumran and Galilee are the same. In Josephus' autobiography when he mentions Galilee he is talking about Qumran. (You guys believe the Jews were in Egypt and Damascus? It is all about locations and you are incorrect). Herod was given charge of Galilee (Qumran) by his father Antipater. Herod was never in Galilee if you get my drift. During the Jewish revolt of 70 AD the Jewish histories and documents were hidden at Qumran.

If you read Josephus you will understand that their were three (shared) schools of thought. The Essenes, the Pharisees, and the Sadducees. Josephus seems to have gotten his hands on their books and interpreted them for the Romans ... that's his stretch.

offa