Chili

In a world where pleasure cannot be conceived to exist without pain, or darkness with light, nor temporal without eternal, it would follow that heaven cannot be conceived to exist without hell. So therefore, if heaven is eternal bliss without pain it must also be true that hell is its opposite on all accounts.

Seeker2000

Then hell would be temporal and painful - but the Christian doctrine says it is also eternal.

Chili

No, hell is just as eternal as heaven if they are opposites. The pleasure-pain thing is just one of the conditions that are known in heaven and hell.

Phishfood

No, hell is just as good as heaven if they are opposites. The infinite-finite thing is just one of the conditions that are known in heaven and hell.

you can't just pick and choose what seems the meanest to you. not unless you change your argument from this silly opposites game. if you want to contrast the pain-pleasure aspect, you gotta do it across the board.

-Pf

Chili

Except that finite is not part of hell if hell is eternal and therefore nothing finite exists in hell or it would not be eternal damnation . . . which, above all, means that the condemned are not part of the infinite but feel the torture that exists in its absense while eternal. Notice here that the finite is not the continuity of the infinite but is it's opposite since infinity has no beginning and no end. Eternity, on the other hand, does have a beginning in the finite that makes hell possible as an opposite in eternity.

Oh, I am not mean and don't care what people believe.

Phishfood

well yes, finite is not part of hell IF hell is eternal, but this is what we're arguing. you played the opposite game and said that hell has to be eternal BECAUSE its the opposite of heaven. I am saying that this isn't correct, and demonstrated why. so that point is moot. everything else in the post is a continuation on your assertion, which we were arguing.

and whether you care what other people believe isn't relevent.

-Pf

-also, if someone could show me how to do a line by line quote reply, id appreciate it.

Chili

Yes well except that evil exists in hell which makes it just opposite to good in heaven. In fact, if you look around you today you may find that those in hell are trying to destroy this earth to make room for the next one.

Phishfood

i'm not sure if you're missing the point or just rambling...do you even get what im saying?

if you want to say that evil exists in hell BECAUSE it is the opposite of good in heaven, then you must accept that hell is finite BECAUSE it is the opposite of infinite, which you ascribe to the duration of the goodness in heaven.

you seem to have left that point of causation saying that hell is bad BECAUSE it is the opposite of good, and are now just arguing that evil is in hell and that's the opposite of the good in heaven, sans that it HAS TO BE THAT WAY BECAUSE OF YOUR SILLY OPPOSITE ARGUMENT.

really, does anyone else see what im saying? this seems a very trivial argument, but just for the sake of wondering...am i being coherent? is it my own fault that im not understanding chilis opposite argument?

-Pf

Chili

For the sake of coherence (not to pick argument) let me say that in my view the infinite (Gen.1) is greater than the eternal (Gen.2) which has its own opposite in the temporal world where good and evil are conjectured (Gen.3). Good and evil can therefore only be conceived to exist in the temporal world.

So for me, the goodness (bliss or whatever) is in the absence of evil (the world) while in the presence of the Infinite wherein only we can be eternal as the continuity of Infinity that itself has no corporeal existence and therefore needs the eternal (Gen.2) to make itself known. This would be Lord God being the manifestation of God (oh yes, it includes us as Lord God or just somebody who is truly in chage of his own destiny).

Hell is to be in the presence of the infinite (Gen.1) while also in the presence of the world wherein only good and evil are known (Gen.3). This makes hell the continuity of infinity while in the presence of evil = saved sinner. Notice that when all doubt was removed prior to the ascension of Jesus that Thomas did not exclaim "my Lord, my God and my Adam" but said "my Lord and my God" because Adam (the world of Gen 3) had just been crucified.

The finite can never be part of the infinite because that would make evolution a self propelled entity. Needless to say, I am a creationist as well.

But notice that I do not condemn evil to hell nor do I claim that evil is bad. I am just proposing that the presence of evil while in eternity is what constitudes hell and is therefore a bad 'place' to be.