Jaybees

What would Xtianity be like today if it were based entirely on portions of the New Testament?

It may be fruitless to speculate, but much of the reaction to Xtianity on this board, by atheists and agnostics, as well as by secular humanists, focuses on the errors, brutality and mythicism of the Old Testament. Also, much of the fundamentalist movement’s ignorance (such as creationism) stems from the writings in the OT.

Actually, there was an early Xtian “heresy” known as the Marcionites, which rejected the OT, the OT god, and most of the gospel writings other than Luke. In addition it placed great emphasis on the Pauline letters that were a significant break with Judaism. Naturally, since “orthodoxy” prevailed, the writings of this early sect were virtually all destroyed, and we know about it almost entirely from the attacks upon it by the “true” Xtians.

http://www.religionfacts.com/christi...le/marcion.htm will give you some idea of what some early Xtian thinking, without the trappings of Judaism. may have amounted to.

Duvduv

No one can say for certain anything about the "Marcionites" because nothing of theirs remains, and no one knows whether they even really existed. It's all rooted in the claims of the biased church writers. And scholars seem to tend to accept the historical narrative of the biased church writers as the gospel truth.......

aa5874

Such an exercise is rather easy. Just examine the so-called Heresies in Apologetic writings like "Against Heresies", "Refutation of All Heresies" and "Prescription Against the Heretics".

All so called Heretics were Christian cults.

It is clear that the name Christian was NOT derived from Jesus but from the word the Greek word for "Anointed".

Examine Theophilus "To Autholycus"

aa5874

The same problem with Moses.

Apologetic sources mentioned Marcion just like Jewish writers mentioned Moses although nothing of Moses remains and no-one knows if he really existed.

Now, According to "Refutation Against All Heresies 7--Marcion did NOT use the Pauline writings but those of Empedocles.

According to "First Apology"--- Marcion did NOT accept the Jewish God as the Creator and preached Another Son of God--Not Jesus Christ.

In the third Prose "Against Marcion" Ephraim the Syrian corroborated the statement of Justin in "First Apology".

Ephraim's Prose Against Marcion Marcion did NOT need the Pauline writings or gLuke.

In the Pauline writings it is claimed Jesus was SENT by God which is completely contrary to the teachings of Marcion.

Galatians 4:4 KJV

Toto

This claim of yours is turning into an annoying broken record.

The biased church writers are biased against Marcionites.

Can you think of a reason for the heresiologists to invent Marcionism? If you can't, and if you don't have any more evidence or at least a coherent argument, please stop spamming this forum with your claims.

Duvduv

Yes, you are correct. They were AGAINST "Marcionism." They were ESTABLISHING the official line, and any divergences were rejected. That being said, we still know nothing about Marcionism beyond the fanciful conjectures based on the claims of the ENEMIES, i.e. the WINNERS in a dispute. Perhaps the Marcionites were even lampooners making fun of the official religion......at least Mr. Justin could have shed some light onto the texts and teachings of the bogeyman Marcion, including writings alleged to have been attributed to a guy named Paul.

Iskander

Europe was very unlucky when it was infected with the Judaic virus. Judaism is the mother and father of Haredi Judaism and Muslim burka-lovers...

sotto voce

It would be a religion that never repaid evil with evil, violence with violence, theft with theft. It would be a religion that promoted patience, kindness, compassion, humility, willingness to forgive, generosity and self-control. It would exclude those who are habitually drunk, drugged, violent, dishonest, either in word or with property, those pre-occupied with material wealth, those who believe that sexual relationships outside marriage between one man and one woman can be beneficial. This standard of behaviour would be embraced, not only for its intrinsic human value, but also because of gratitude for atonement.

Just as Christianity actually is.

DCHindley

Jaybees,

The problem is that, at least in the Pauline letters that Marcion accepted, there is a consistent Judaic thread regarding the "faith like Abraham" (in God's promise of many children and a land of milk and honey) that justifies one before God. A clear connection to the OT. This thread is the only coherent part of the letters.

I used to think that the Christological passages, which have the appearance of being an additional strata of reactionary commentary and adaptations to an originally Judaic document with no connection to Jesus Christ, were what inspired Marcion to develop his theology.

After studying later debates between Christians and Marcionites, it seems more likely that Marcion's doctrine of an unknown good God who sent a savior into the world was an unique development of Platonic concepts of God.

DCH

Sheshbazzar

The entire tale is built upon elements and ideas cribbed from Judaism, flavored with a dallop of pagan Zoroastrianism, and Platonism.
Remove all of the Old Testament 'Jewish' elements from the NT, and from any human remembrance, and there wouldn't be enough of a NT story left to even make a story.

The Holey Babel is already falling apart from having far too many holes, take out any more and it will just disintegrate.