atheist

A while ago, I was caught up in reading material Ahmed Osman and Charles N. Pope.

Basically, what they think is that the pharoahs of Ancient Egyptian dynasties are actually the Old Testament patriarchs. This "theory" is not without controversy, but it is one that I still find rather fascinating. However, I have found it difficult to find open and unbiased analysis of this theory, especially (and rather unfortunately) in the scientific community; It seems that many egyptologists are quite "set" in their own theories, and don't like to entertain ideas that challenge them (at least in my quest for information on the subject).

Is anyone else here aware of the ideas (started?) by Osman? Is their really any credibility to the idea that the Old Testament is a twisted account of Ancient Egyptian dynasties?

offa

Basically, what they think is that the pharoahs of Ancient Egyptian dynasties are actually the Old Testament patriarchs.

(Offa) If you cross reference Jubilees and Genesis and throw in alittle bit of Josephus a story emerges that Egypt was in the Qumran area. Abraham first had Sarai for his spouse and she was taken by the Pharoah. The Pharoah and Abraham's brother (Haran) have the same characteristic's.
A story in Jubilees tells about Abraham burning the "house of Idols" and Haran perishing trying to save the idols. Abraham then flees the scene with Sarai and her son Lot. It is obvious that Sarai is Lot's mother (raising the question about the big deal about her virginity until she is 90). My question is, who is Lot's father ... Abraham or Haran?
Aligning the Pharoah with Haran is the repetion of the stories about Abraham. They sound like the same story in different settings.
Also, their is a story about Moses slaying an Egyptian and burying him in the sand. Could this Egyptian be his brother Aaron?
The (real) journey from Egypt to Jerusalem and vice-versa is a long and perilous one. In Scripture (and the New Testament) it is implied that it is a shorter journey that is made often. It is obviously more plausible to have Egypt within Judea. Likewise, Damascus and Tyre are located just west of Qumran if one studies locations. Jesus can Mysteriously appear in Galilee because Galilee is within little (not worldly) Judea.

spin

I don't know Pope, but Osman is 90% speculation and 10% error from memory.

While one should expect some Egyptian influence in Jewish thought, I don't think there is any credibility whatsoever in Osman's flights of fancy.


spin

spin

Out of all this speculation, I find one bit that makes me wonser if there is anything redeemable within it:

"Abraham then flees the scene with Sarai and her son Lot. It is obvious that Sarai is Lot's mother (raising the question about the big deal about her virginity until she is 90). My question is, who is Lot's father ... Abraham or Haran?"

What makes you think any of this (especially when you are told by your source that Haran is the father a few times)?


spin

offa

(Spin)What makes you think any of this (especially when you are told by your source that Haran is the father a few times)?

(Offa) Let's define "father". Is the father the ordaining priest or the real daddy. My following of the story is that Abraham knocked his sister up and then she was taken by her 1/2 brother Haran. Abraham is the daddy but when Lot turns 12/13 and does the bar mizt thing he is under the guidance of his father, the priest (pharaoh) Haran.

Begat means ordained by the father (not the daddy). A careful scrutiny of Noah, one will discover that Shem was Noah's oldest son but that Noah's wife already had two sons (Ham and Jap). And when Ham uncovered Noah's nakedness he actually had sex with one of Noah's wives (and Ham is a step-son).

Why don't you explain to me what "begat" means.

spin

Sorry, offa, but could you supply quotes and possibly the original language for what you are saying. I'm involved in a lot of discussion and would appreciate the references, ie the "what" that makes you say what you have said. Thanks.


spin

spin

The Hebrew word YLD means "to bring forth" with the inevitable collocation of "to give birth" or "to generate". The word TLDT, which interested us in another thread, usually translated as "generations" always deals with genealogy.


spin

offa

where does "begat" say daddy. My point is, Noah was not Ham's daddy. Noah's wife already had "weak eyes".

spin

A male who generated something is the father of that something.

"And the sons of Noah who went out from the ark were Shem, Ham and Japeth." Gen 9:18

If you have anything at all to say, please say it clearly and give a few references to show what it is you are referring to.


spin

atheist