Freethought & Rationalism Archive

wonkothesane · 11-05-2005, 04:49 AM

I remember hearing several times in the past year, from a least 2 or 3 different sources, the asertation the the "Virgin Mary" (assuming she and Jesus were even real, pardon the pun, honest-to-God historical figures) must have been around 12 yo at the time she concieved Jesus.

I can easily buy that age, given the times and culture, but now I can't remember where I heard these assertations made, exactly (on tv once, online at least once) and I am wondering what Biblical scholars have to say about it. Or people famaliar with that time have to say about it.

I only ask because when I brought it up around an Xtain I know, I got a "How do you figure *that*!?" response back. (I said I figured it sounded plausable, and didn't dig too deep because to me it's all fairy stories anyway - but now I would like to know, from the perspective of, say, a biblical scholar, or at least someone familiar with that culture - that time and place - if 12 seems a reasonable assumption - or even if it's *more* than an assumption - or if it's unlikely instead.)

Thanks.

Malachi151 · 11-05-2005, 05:47 AM

This comes from the Catholic Church, and I beleive that I was the one that mentioned it.

Here is one set of related material:

Quote:

Jewish maidens were considered marriageable at the age of twelve years and six months, though the actual age of the bride varied with circumstances. The marriage was preceded by the betrothal, after which the bride legally belonged to the bridegroom, though she did not live with him till about a year later, when the marriage used to be celebrated. All this agrees well with the language of the Evangelists. St. Luke (1:27) calls Mary "a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph"; St. Matthew (1:18) says, when as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child, of the Holy Ghost". As we know of no brother of Mary, we must suppose that she was an heiress, and was obliged by the law of Numbers 36:6 to marry a member of her tribe. The Law itself prohibited marriage within certain degrees of relationship, so that the marriage of even an heiress was left more or less to choice.

According to the story in the NT Mary was in this waiting period, between marriage and when she would begin living with Joseph. I have read more on this in other sources, all fo them Catholic scholars, who agree that based on the story, she would have been 12.

Aspirin99 · 11-05-2005, 06:55 AM

Some believe that the Infancy Gospel of James has something to do the 12-yr old Mary date. Written early to mid 2nd century, it has Joseph as an older widower who takes the young Mary as wife. Mary, apparenetly, lived in the Temple until she was 12-yrs old. The priests needed to have her leave because she was about to get her period and would defile the Temple. They drew lots, and the lot feel to the elderly widower Joseph who then took Mary as his wife. At least, I think that's the story. Read more here:

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/infancyjames.html

yalla · 11-06-2005, 01:56 AM

If you date the gospel of "Luke" to c100 [which I doubt] as "tradition" more or less does.
And if you consider the source for the infancy stuff in "Luke" to have been Mary as I have read.
Then she was either bloody old when she whispered in "Luke"'s ear about the angel etc or she was very bloody young when the lord paid her a visit in the previous century.

Aspirin99 · 11-06-2005, 05:44 AM

I thought the original question was where did the tradition come from?

Toto · 11-07-2005, 01:49 PM

Chili digression split off here

11-05-2005, 04:49 AM	#1
wonkothesane Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Outside of the asylum... Posts: 2,049	"Virgin" Mary's age at Jesus' conception? I remember hearing several times in the past year, from a least 2 or 3 different sources, the asertation the the "Virgin Mary" (assuming she and Jesus were even real, pardon the pun, honest-to-God historical figures) must have been around 12 yo at the time she concieved Jesus. I can easily buy that age, given the times and culture, but now I can't remember where I heard these assertations made, exactly (on tv once, online at least once) and I am wondering what Biblical scholars have to say about it. Or people famaliar with that time have to say about it. I only ask because when I brought it up around an Xtain I know, I got a "How do you figure that!?" response back. (I said I figured it sounded plausable, and didn't dig too deep because to me it's all fairy stories anyway - but now I would like to know, from the perspective of, say, a biblical scholar, or at least someone familiar with that culture - that time and place - if 12 seems a reasonable assumption - or even if it's more than an assumption - or if it's unlikely instead.) Thanks.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

11-05-2005, 06:55 AM	#3
Aspirin99 Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: TalkingTimeline.com Posts: 151	Some believe that the Infancy Gospel of James has something to do the 12-yr old Mary date. Written early to mid 2nd century, it has Joseph as an older widower who takes the young Mary as wife. Mary, apparenetly, lived in the Temple until she was 12-yrs old. The priests needed to have her leave because she was about to get her period and would defile the Temple. They drew lots, and the lot feel to the elderly widower Joseph who then took Mary as his wife. At least, I think that's the story. Read more here: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/infancyjames.html

11-06-2005, 01:56 AM	#4
yalla Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: oz Posts: 1,848	If you date the gospel of "Luke" to c100 [which I doubt] as "tradition" more or less does. And if you consider the source for the infancy stuff in "Luke" to have been Mary as I have read. Then she was either bloody old when she whispered in "Luke"'s ear about the angel etc or she was very bloody young when the lord paid her a visit in the previous century.

11-06-2005, 05:44 AM	#5
Aspirin99 Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: TalkingTimeline.com Posts: 151	I thought the original question was where did the tradition come from?

11-07-2005, 01:49 PM	#6
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Chili digression split off here

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.