James The Least

I wanted to address the question of demographics, based on Duvduv's comment in a separate thread. Somewhere I'd read that people had estimated only 10,000 or so Christians circa 100 CE, so I was shocked to read the following:

"Estimates of the number of Christians, let us say in 100 CE and again 200 CE, are extremely difficult to calculate ... for the year 100 CE, something in the order of 100,000 to 250,000...is about as close as we are likely to get, though, if anything, this may be on the high side...for the later date, 200 CE, we are offered anything from around 1 to 1.5 million, or 1.4 to 2.5 percent of the total population, usually reckoned to be around sixty million."

--Stephen G. Wilson, Related Strangers: Jews and Christians 70-170 CE (or via: amazon.co.uk) (Fortress)

Wilson's point was to show what a tiny minority Christians were in the world at large, but I find it shocking that an illegal, underground cultus that supposedly started in the 30s and 40s would have as many as 100,000 to 250,000 adherents by the early second century. Your thoughts?

Duvduv

You make a very good point. We are supposed to believe that the generic Christians (Orthodox+Arian+Marcionite+Valentian+you-name-it)
existed as an illegally organized group facing persecution like Falun Gong and then lo and behold they become legal only 170 years AFTER Justin supposedly wrote his Apology, all for one and one for all, comprising a community of that many people in the mid 2nd century, with demographers forgetting that there were different sects and could not all be counted as a single unified group except as part of the church propaganda.
And here we have this Justin sending his detailed Apology by Fedex to the Office the Emperor without any references or a resume. No mention of historical leaders, no mention of his own Old Man, no mention of communities or his colleagues, and the Chief of Staff of the Emperor rushed the document to the Emperor in the middle of his summit with the King of Persia or something. Heck, today you can't even get a letter directly to your congressman that fast. And of course there is no evidence the Office of the Emperor at 1600 Apollonius Way ever got the Apology or replied to it.
I don't believe it at all.

Toto

As noted, the figure of 100,000 is probably on the high side. But I suspect that these were not individual converts. The figure would have included households, which would have included wives, chidren, slaves, and household hangers on.

Have you read Rodney Stark's Rise of Christianity (or via: amazon.co.uk)? [extensive preview on google books] Stark spends some time on the statistics and what they mean, although he rather uncritically accepts some of the claims in Acts about the numbers. But his point is that religions like Christianity spread by social contact, so they grow exponentially.

PhilosopherJay

Hi Toto,

I find it surprising that 100,000 people did not leave a single artifact that is traceable to the First or Second centuries. Since we have tens of thousands of samples of graffiti from this time period, it is surprising that not one is from a Christian.

Warmly,

Jay Raskin

sotto voce

Would have? Either Wilson made this clear in his methodology, or he didn't.

sotto voce

But then you don't find Christian graffiti now. Christians don't deface.

aa5874

It is most remarkable that some one would use Acts of the Apostles for the start of the Jesus cult when it is OBVIOUS fiction.

The author of Acts claimed the preaching of the Jesus story BEGAN after Jesus Ascended in a cloud when the Holy Ghost gave the disciples Miraculous Power and they became Multi-lingual on the day of Pentecost and that about THREE THOUSAND people were converted .

There is ZERO evidence in all antiquity from non-apologetic sources to support anything about Jesus, the Holy Ghost, the disciples, Paul and converts in Acts of the Apostles since before c 70 CE.

The earliest DATED fragment of Acts is NOT from the 1st century, but the 3rd century, and that is EXPECTED if Acts of the Apostles was NOT known or that there were NO actual Apostles before c 70 CE.

Duvduv

As a relatively MASSIVE number of people belonging to an OUTLAWED (illegal) movement growing exponentially under the nose of the regime in its own backyard?? Sounds very very fishy to me.

Toto

Wilson's methodology was to extrapolate backwards from figures from the second century and beyond. There was no census of Christians.

Toto

Ancient graffiti is not the spray painted territorially aggressive murals in modern cities.