Freethought & Rationalism Archive

AtheistGamer · 02-23-2012, 12:53 PM

So Nat. Geo. let a christian apologetic prostelytizer write an article on the lives of the apostles.

I sent a lettor to the editor. Here is what it said.

As a non-believer, I read Andrew's article on the apostles with dismay. Much of the information for the article comes from unreliable sources, such as the anonymously written gospels, acts of the apostles, and catholic legend. The article states that Mark, Mathew, and Luke wrote the gospels that bear their names, and that Luke wrote Acts of the Apostles. These statements are based soley on rumors passed down by church fathers, who lived long after the books were penned, and historical conjecture. In addition to being anonymous, these books are extremely biased, and disagree with each other on several points. For example, the books report fantastic events such as miracles, have Jesus predicting that the world will end within forty to fifty years after his death, and tell conflicting tales of Jesus' early childhood. Instead of writing an objective article on Christianity, Andrew Todhunter sought to insert a biased peice of christian propaganda into the pages of your fantastic magazine.

Toto · 02-23-2012, 01:21 PM

The article seems to be currently available at http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/20...dhunter-text/1

Quote:

In the Footsteps of the Apostles

They were unlikely leaders. As the Bible tells it, most knew more about mending nets than winning converts when Jesus said he would make them "fishers of men." Yet 2,000 years later, all over the world, the Apostles are still drawing people in.

By Andrew Todhunter

And then it starts in Kerala India?

I don't see any indication that Todhunter is a Christian apologist. He appears to be more of creative writing fantasist, looking for a good story to sell.

AtheistGamer · 02-23-2012, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

The article seems to be currently available at http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/20...dhunter-text/1

I don't see any indication that Todhunter is a Christian apologist. He appears to be more of creative writing fantasist, looking for a good story to sell.

Oops. I meant to delete apologist, and replace it with prostelytizer. Instead I just added a new adjective to the guy.

Toto · 02-23-2012, 01:37 PM

I think he's trying to be entertaining. He does list his source:

Quote:

In the early days, Columba Stewart, a Benedictine monk and historian at Saint John's Abbey in Minnesota, told me, " ..."

The Apostles were the movement's cutting edge, spreading the message across the vast trade network of the ancient world and leaving small Christian communities in their paths. "To study the lives of the Apostles," Stewart said, "is a bit like what we've been doing with the Hubble telescope—getting as close as we can to seeing these earliest galaxies. This was the big bang moment for Christianity, with the Apostles blasting out of Jerusalem and scattering across the known world."

...

Stewart is the executive director of his abbey's Hill Museum & Manuscript Library, which has been preserving religious manuscripts around the world since 1965. Payyappilly and his small staff spearhead the effort in Kerala, digitizing and preserving thousands of inscribed palm leaves and other manuscripts. Theirs is a race against a humid climate, which destroys manuscripts if they're not properly cared for. Since 2006 the team has accumulated 12 terabytes of digitized data—one million images of manuscripts. The oldest document in their possession, a collection of ecclesiastical laws, dates to 1291. These extraordinary documents are important to Thomas Christians, linking them to the founder of their faith.

More gullibility than proselytizing, I think. Todhunter found a nice, articulate source and got to take a trip to exotic India.

sotto voce · 02-23-2012, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtheistGamer

So Nat. Geo. let a christian apologetic prostelytizer write an article on the lives of the apostles.

I sent a lettor to the editor. Here is what it said.

As a non-believer, I read Andrew's article on the apostles with dismay. Much of the information for the article comes from unreliable sources, such as the anonymously written gospels, acts of the apostles, and catholic legend. The article states that Mark, Mathew, and Luke wrote the gospels that bear their names, and that Luke wrote Acts of the Apostles.

Authorship is of no importance for belief.

Quote:

These statements are based soley on rumors passed down by church fathers

Every person designated as a 'father' contradicted the Bible at some crucial point (politically motivated), so they are inherently unreliable; though they would have tried very hard to get themselves in line with genuine believers. The chances are that, on apolitical issues, they were orthodox.

Quote:

In addition to being anonymous, these books are extremely biased

Surely one has to have been present at the events described in order to make that allegation.

Quote:

and disagree with each other on several points. For example, the books report fantastic events such as miracles

Meaning impossible events? One must prove that the miraculous is impossible before making that statement. The point of a miracle would be that it is 'impossible'.

Quote:

have Jesus predicting that the world will end within forty to fifty years after his death

Reference, please?

Quote:

and tell conflicting tales of Jesus' early childhood.

Reference, please?

Quote:

Instead of writing an objective article on Christianity, Andrew Todhunter sought to insert a biased peice of christian propaganda into the pages of your fantastic magazine.

It's antichrist, more or less fascist propaganda. The media seem to have a panicked right wing presence, just lately.

Iskander · 02-23-2012, 02:19 PM

:wave:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtheistGamer

So Nat. Geo. let a christian apologetic prostelytizer write an article on the lives of the apostles.

I sent a lettor to the editor. Here is what it said.

As a non-believer, I read Andrew's article on the apostles with dismay. Much of the information for the article comes from unreliable sources, such as the anonymously written gospels, acts of the apostles, and catholic legend. The article states that Mark, Mathew, and Luke wrote the gospels that bear their names, and that Luke wrote Acts of the Apostles. These statements are based soley on rumors passed down by church fathers, who lived long after the books were penned, and historical conjecture. In addition to being anonymous, these books are extremely biased, and disagree with each other on several points. For example, the books report fantastic events such as miracles, have Jesus predicting that the world will end within forty to fifty years after his death, and tell conflicting tales of Jesus' early childhood. Instead of writing an objective article on Christianity, Andrew Todhunter sought to insert a biased peice of christian propaganda into the pages of your fantastic magazine.

Do you object to this author earning an honest living? Should only the Mythists be allowed to publish?

sotto voce · 02-23-2012, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskander

:wave:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtheistGamer

So Nat. Geo. let a christian apologetic prostelytizer write an article on the lives of the apostles.

I sent a lettor to the editor. Here is what it said.

As a non-believer, I read Andrew's article on the apostles with dismay. Much of the information for the article comes from unreliable sources, such as the anonymously written gospels, acts of the apostles, and catholic legend. The article states that Mark, Mathew, and Luke wrote the gospels that bear their names, and that Luke wrote Acts of the Apostles. These statements are based soley on rumors passed down by church fathers, who lived long after the books were penned, and historical conjecture. In addition to being anonymous, these books are extremely biased, and disagree with each other on several points. For example, the books report fantastic events such as miracles, have Jesus predicting that the world will end within forty to fifty years after his death, and tell conflicting tales of Jesus' early childhood. Instead of writing an objective article on Christianity, Andrew Todhunter sought to insert a biased peice of christian propaganda into the pages of your fantastic magazine.

Do you object to this author earning an honest living?

Not in the least.

spin · 02-23-2012, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskander

:wave:

Do you object to this author earning an honest living?

Not in the least.

But where's the honesty in it? We seem to have a peddler of bullshit gulling a readership. He might be better suited to street sweeping. Now that's an honest living.

AtheistGamer · 02-23-2012, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Surely one has to have been present at the events described in order to make that allegation.

One can see that the gospel writers were not being impartial in their writings. The gospels were written to convert believers, not to serve as matter of fact reports. Two good peices of evidence for this are how Isaiah 7:14 was taken out of context to become a prophecy of Jesus, and the mini-apocalypses in which the authors have jesus saying that the world will end before the current generation passes away.

Quote:

Meaning impossible events? One must prove that the miraculous is impossible before making that statement. The point of a miracle would be that it is 'impossible'.

I didn't say that miracles are impossible. I said that they are fantastic. a.k.a out of the ordinary, unlikley, unbelievable. Surely you would doubt the reliability of a history book which reported that Godzilla attacked Japan in 1945. I doubt the reliabilty of the gospels for the same reason.

Quote:

have Jesus predicting that the world will end within forty to fifty years after his death.Reference, please?

See the mini-apocalypses of the synoptic Gospels. Mathew's version ends with mathew 24:34. "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Or just read Bart Erhman's book "Jesus Apocalyptic prophet of the new millineum". Or just read the new testament like I did, and you'll come to the same conclusion.

Quote:

and tell conflicting tales of Jesus' early childhood.
Reference, please?

This should cover it.

AtheistGamer · 02-23-2012, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskander

:wave

o you object to this author earning an honest living? Should only the Mythists be allowed to publish?

I wouldn't object if the author was earning an honest living. But as spin said he is peddling bullshit whether he knows it or not.

I'm not a Mythicist, and I think the Mythicist position is just as unsupportable as the Orthodox position. I think there was a guy named Jesus who got himselfed killed by the romans around 30 C.E., and a religion sprung up around him. He probably had a group of followers with names such as Mathew, Luke, etc. However I don't think that Acts, or Gospels present an accurrate report of what those people were like, or what they did.

I think that Acts and the Gospels are part of a genre called historical fiction. In other words these books are to the life of Jesus, and his followers what the movie Inglorious Basterds is to WWII and the life of Adolf Hitler.

But to answer your question, no I don't think that only mythicists should be allowed to publish. Just people with their heads screwed on straight and some critical thinking skills.

02-23-2012, 12:53 PM	#1
AtheistGamer Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Central Iowa Posts: 128	Ridiculous Nat. Geo. article on the lives of the apostles. So Nat. Geo. let a christian apologetic prostelytizer write an article on the lives of the apostles. I sent a lettor to the editor. Here is what it said. As a non-believer, I read Andrew's article on the apostles with dismay. Much of the information for the article comes from unreliable sources, such as the anonymously written gospels, acts of the apostles, and catholic legend. The article states that Mark, Mathew, and Luke wrote the gospels that bear their names, and that Luke wrote Acts of the Apostles. These statements are based soley on rumors passed down by church fathers, who lived long after the books were penned, and historical conjecture. In addition to being anonymous, these books are extremely biased, and disagree with each other on several points. For example, the books report fantastic events such as miracles, have Jesus predicting that the world will end within forty to fifty years after his death, and tell conflicting tales of Jesus' early childhood. Instead of writing an objective article on Christianity, Andrew Todhunter sought to insert a biased peice of christian propaganda into the pages of your fantastic magazine.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.