Jeffrey Gibson

Thank you for demonstrating your profound knowledge of NT christology, the history of Christian belief about the person of Jesus, and the substance and of the history of the Christological controversies of the 4th and 5th centuries.

Jeffrey

Jeffrey Gibson

It's not only the fundies here who show themselves lacking in knowledge of "textual criticism and all that".

Jeffrey

Cege

Glad to help out. Anytime. :grin:

Toto

Jeffrey - Cege may not have written a thesis on the doctrine of the trinity, but I don't see anything inaccurate in that statement.

Jeffrey Gibson

So ... first century Christians were Chalcedonians?

And the issue isn't what Cege has written. It's what he's read.

Jeffrey

Toto

Jeffrey: Half-Life is not a first century Christian. He is trying to work out his 21st century Christian beliefs and their implications.

In any case, who were the first century Christians? No one has really demonstrated that they existed, at least before 70 CE, unless you assume that the letters of Paul 1) can actually be dated with some certainty and 2) have not been seriously redacted. Dating Mark to the first century is similarly based on a foundation of quicksand. There's another thread on this if you care to continue this conversation.

Jeffrey Gibson

He is reading back into a non 21st century text beliefs about Jesus that the text of Mark does not subscribe to. Where does Mark evince the conviction that Jesus was God, let alone the God of Greek philosophers?

Jeffrey

stuart shepherd

I think that you are correct Jeffrey. Most of us have read the gospels so many times that we no longer remember which gospel writer said what. It is just is a jumble.
But it is an interesting exercise to read Mark's Gospel again with a clear head to see what Mark wrote about the deity of Jesus.

Stuart Shepherd

Toto

Do you think that Paul was more or less contemporaneous with Mark? Paul writes about Lord Jesus Christ. There are some indications that Mark had read Paul's letters. Did Mark not subscribe to Paul's ideas about Lord Jesus? If Mark was writing an allegorical fiction, do we know what Mark thought about Jesus?

God versus man are not the only options here.

It is common for 21st century Christians to read a higher Christology into Mark. But it is also common for 21st century historicists to fashion a completely human Jesus and read that into Mark, in spite of Jesus walking on water like a god, forgiving sins, etc. Perhaps that is the mark of good literature, that it can carry so many meanings.

Jeffrey Gibson

And these are?



Are you saying that to call Jesus Lord is the same thing as viewing him as not only God, but the God of the Greek philosophers?

Was Paul a Chalcedonian?

Jeffrey