Clouseau

Allusion to Aramaic says nothing about whether Jesus used Greek.

Ray Moscow

But why would two native Aramaic speakers speak Greek in a private conversation, even if they could?

Since this was a private conversation, just how did "John" hear it?

The whole thing looks very much like a later, fictional creation to put a doctrine into Jesus' mouth.

Clouseau

Because Greek was the lingua franca among the educated.
He could get the record from either or both men.

Ray Moscow

Where do you get the idea that Jesus was "educated"?

Magic knowledge of languages?

But back to my earlier point: native speakers speak their own language with each other, not foreign languages.

Chili

No it doesn't. Once from below is enough to get you into hell or the sin against the HS would be forgivable, and once from above is sufficient to get you into heaven or the sin against the HS would not be possible.

Clouseau

He's more famous than you and me, Ray.

The lingua franca of Galilee was koine. One did not need to be educated there to be able to speak it. All of the disciples except J. Iscariot were Galileans, and Judas, being the purser, must have known koine too. It is very likely indeed, imv, that Jesus and the disciples used Greek while in Galilee, and privately in Judaea.

It's a very English idea, mon brave, to suppose that ordinary people speak just one language.

(I'm not sure that the ESV is much of an advance on the old steam Bible, btw. )

Chili

I quite agree with that because Galilea is where the messianic movement takes place of which speaking Greek is symbolic here. All the desciples belong there and must be raised except Judas who's inner details must be brought to understanding so that the aftermath of Judaism cannot remain as an unsolved riddle to make Ascension possible.

In John, for example, when Thomas (who is the twin of Peter in faith and doubt) was removed as an obstacle it was Peter who was defrocked and couldn't catch a thing all night (no Judaism left) . . . until he cast his net on the other side of his mind where the fish were big and easy to catch and it is upon those big fish that the Catholic Church is built (which therefore is not Abrahamic by inertia = is living faith with Christ among us).

Chili

Has nobody ever wondered why Matthew's Jesus does not get to heaven but ends with the great commission as if in Galilee while the soldiers pocket the money to this very day?

Ray Moscow

Well, I speak several to some extent, and my wife and I often speak Croatian or Russian with each other, mostly just for fun but sometimes to keep the conversation relatively private.

However, when we want to be very clear about what we're saying, we revert to our native language, English.

Why would these two not speak in their native language?

It's true that educated people both from Judea and Galilee probably spoke some Greek. However, I come back to the point that in all probability, if this John 3 conversation actually took place, they would have been speaking Aramaic. The problem is that this conversation wouldn't make sense in Aramaic.

Ray

Clouseau

Other people swap languages even in mid-sentence! I have heard three languages in a single short conversation, and no, it was not just using single words or phrases, as we might.

The concept of native language is not necessarily appropriate.