Malachi151

This type of nonsense does more to discredit serious critical Biblical scholarship than anything IMO.

Basically everything in that movie is total nonsense, and really, as someone who does not think that Jesus ever existed but rather developed from myth, it pisses me off that so much attention is wasted on this type of BS.

Unfortunately, the "Jesus Myth" position is weighted down and discredited by the overwhelming influence of this mentality, and people like Ashraya S, etc.

burning flames

malachi, do you have a good critique of the movie? also do you have books or sources of further study that you could recommend?

why do YOU think jesus evolved out of circulating myths?

Roger Pearse

Isn't this a direct quotation from Joseph Wheless? I checked all the patristic quotes in his intro here, and they didn't do well.

Tertullian was never bishop of Carthage. The Catholic Encyclopedia article is here, and makes rather clear (surely?) that the context is a misquote of book 1, chapter 13 of "Ad Nationes"; Tertullian is not discussing whether beliefs attributed to Christians are true, so much as pointing out that, if true, those accusing Christians of them do the same.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Magdlyn

Evidence for the evangelists being Jewish is...?

There are theories that "Judaism" was invented during and post Babylonian/Persian exile. These cultures, respectively, invented the zodiac and dualistic religion, on which the emphasis on the number 12 in the Hebrew Bible, the idea of Satan, and the idea of an afterlife, may be based. We know the names of the months of the yr in the traditional "Jewish" calendar are taken from Babylon, including the one named after the "false god" Tammuz. I find this extremely ironic and interesting. Ditto the tale of Esther and Marduk on which Purim is based... etc.

burning flames

http://1peter315.blogspot.com/2007/0...-jesus_30.html

andrewcriddle

FWIW I posted on this forum about why IMO the Orpheus medallion is not authentic http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=169542

The Bede article refers to my arguments in this thread as well as to other evidence

Andrew Criddle

Malachi151

Well, there are several. Here are my own writings on the subject:

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/ar...th_history.htm

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/ar...ospel_mark.htm

burning flames

Zeitgeist the new “truth” movie being promoted by its makers on conspiracy message boards around the internet has been thoroughly debunked. It is disgusting to think the makers would try to sell it as a “truth movie” considering that it has dozens (over 50) easily provable factual errors. This is a slap in the face to the people who have died and will continue to do so in this patriot movement, we would expect nothing less than 100% accuracy of any movie in the 911 truth realm. We are talking about specific false claims that have been debunked for years, yet because this is the first time its been put into a form of a movie It has new life. This is not about a defense of a religion, it is about the integrity of information and our right not to be lied to by people claiming to be “truthers”
Lets take a look at the references the makers of this movie list as their sources for this information on their website: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/sources.htm

You will notice that they don’t site one single original source for the Jesus similarities they claim exist, you would think if it was true that the ancient texts showed such similarities, they would simply site these ancient texts. They don’t because they do not exist, Its quite simple, They instead offer books from authors such as Tim Leedom, Massey, Acharya, Doherty. This is laughable as a resource list if you have looked in to these claims. It’s the equivalent as me referencing Glenn Beck to prove there is no 911 conspiracy. I know its hard to believe that Tsarion or Alan Watt have been quoting known disinfo in their dissemination of this idea, but look for yourself, The numerous claims made by this movie concerning Jesus’s many similarities are either true or false. Before I move on here are the links to various debunkings of the “Christ myth”

Here is a great look at the ridiculous claims of most of the authors on that list (how they get away with this stuff is beyond rational thought)
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/copycathub.html
This is another that site handles the major deities and does so with tremendous references.
http://www.thedevineevidence.com/jes...ilarities.html
I like the next site because no stone is left unturned in his search for more and more "Christ myths deities" to debunk, he has about 80 claims looked in to here:
http://kingdavid8.com/Copycat/Home.html
Because this movie spent so much time claiming the similarities of hours and Jesus here is a specific debunking to show how clearly uninformed in mythology and how easily duped the makers of this film are in making this claim.
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html
Now for Leedoms "Virishna" I wish there was more information to go on, but there is no such deity, at least in our earth's currently verifiable history. he apparently didn't bother with fact checking. Here is one account of the hunt for Virishna from an earlier source:
http://kingdavid8.com/Copycat/JesusVirishna.html

This movie also tries to make the claim that the Catholic churches pagan ideals, symbolism ,and rituals are somehow proof that Christianity itself is a part of this, nothing could be further from the truth. Lets take December 25th mentioned at least a dozen times in the film. The date of December 25th, which was officially proclaimed by the church fathers in A.D. 440, was actually a vestige of the Roman holiday of Saturnalia, observed near the winter solstice, which itself was among the many pagan traditions inherited from the earlier Babylonian priesthood. Any person that doesn’t drool on themselves will tell you that nowhere in the bible is this date mentioned or inferred in ANY way. It is ludicrous to say that and pagan rituals involving this date can be linked to Christianity before the catholic church got a hold of the idea, that is, ALMOST 500 YEARS LATER. This illustrates that the Vatican has very little to do with true Christianity except for the obvious problem that they themselves always claim that they ARE Christianity.
Ill put it this way:

I know, the catholic church very well may be terribly evil, It stands to reason that that is where evil would want to set up shop. but lets please stop using its pagan based rituals to prove anything about Christianities founder. Yes, the "church" does seem to be used as a control mechanism…TO CONTROL YOUR PERCEPTION OF CHRISTIANITY. It seems so obvious. Jesus was actually one of the most anti-religious people that ever walked the earth He had compassion for every low down person he came into contact with, except for the "clergy" of his day. They were the only people he ever spoke a harsh word to..maby a few money changers too. The guy in the new testament would be freaking furious with an organization that claims the kind of things the Vatican claims.


Now, on to one of my favorite subjects, the Zodiac, or the Mazzaroth. This movie’s half truths and outright lies about the zodiac are sickening. The unfortunate thing is that you have to know a good deal about science, history, mythology, astronomy, and physics in order to start to even understand what is at play with this system. It is not as simple as many are led to think And because of a lack of diligent study and an overabundance of half assed research, people swallow what they are told without questioning or learning anything further.
I warn you, if you REALLY want to know what the zodiac is, if you want to know why the illuminated groups venerate the “as above so below” maxim, it wont be easy, and you will have to go to “school”, the long and the short of it is that the system, and its use and history, have been perverted to show and do things are believed only because of what you are NOT told. it is a matter of withholding information as much or more that mis-information. The truth is stranger than the half truth.
I will put some links here for those who wish to look into this, I encourage everyone who cares to do so:
http://www.ldolphin.org/zodiac/
http://server.firefighters.org/catalog/1998/00452.mp3
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...84938536095474
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...93878728948984

You can argue with me about a lot of things here (and Im sure you will) but that this movie has a great deal of factual errors is not up for debate, as I said most of these claims were debunked 100 years ago. I am very worried about the future of this truth movement of which I am proudly a part of, I know that a division on dogmatic grounds is coming, and that all the great work we have done exposing and fighting this New World Order will be undone, by design. Be careful the ones proving the most stuff are often the ones to watch out for, they do this because they know that certain truths are coming out they know that they cant stop the awakening that’s coming. so they try to temper it by supplying us with the best real information through their agents and having them only lie about key elements, It is very insidious and very evil. We must be alert and challenge EVERYTHING even if you wanted to hear everything this movie had to say it does not make it true.

One more thing, As this movie suggest, I too believe we are at the end of an age. An astronomical age and a spiritual age, the precession of the equinoxes is a real thing,
They have tried to tell you that this impending change is a non-christian Idea, This IS the Idea! It is clearly described in the bible we will indeed change, as will this world, and why it must do so. but they are keeping you from seeing the origin of the warning! The bible has been 100% accurate in its writing history in advance, this is how has validated itself. Challenge this claim It is your duty, All the multidimensional beings around us know this too, they are not always to be trusted we do NOT know their motives.

P.S. I discuss what method the coming division might take here:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread289468/pg1

Freethinkaluva

burning flames,

You've used JP Holding as a source to smear Acharya's work. There are a few things you should know about Holding. Here are just a few links about the dishonesty of JP Holding exposing why he & his entourage cannot be trusted & why anyone claiming to hold any credibility while using him as a source can't be trusted either. Anyone who uses JP Holding as a source or reference for anything deserves absolutely no credibility whatsoever & should be humiliated & embarrassed for it.

JP Holding has no qualifications whatsoever in any Biblical field, knows no Biblical languages, and has no relevant training, yet has the temerity to presume that his OPINION is enough, and that his personal FAITH is all that he needs, to offer a vicious and vitriolic critique of credible credentialed scholars who are trained in this area of expertise. JP Holding has no training in comparative religion. No training in mythology. No training in archaeoastronomy. No training in astrotheology.

So, don't take my word for it...see it for yourself.

TEKTONICS.ORG: EXPOSED!
http://the-anointed-one.com/exposed.html

'James Patrick Holding, the Want-to-Be Apologist'
http://www.infidels.org/library/maga.../4/024jph.html

'Dishonesty by Robert Turkel (J.P. Holding)'
http://www.discord.org/~lippard/turkeldishonesty.html

A Reply to J. P. Holding
http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...s/holding.html

"Writing James P Holding Off!"
http://debunkingchristianity.blogspo...lding-off.html

"Prove Jesus Existed, Please!"
http://www.truthbeknown.com/holding.htm

James Patrick Holding: Another Apostate With Selective Education
http://www.darrellwconder.com/debate1.html

Do a google for JP Holding and his alt. "Sheila Rangslinger" -

"DISCLOSURE FROM ADMIN: "Sheila Rangslinger" was discovered to be a sock puppet identity created by J.P. Holding. Any statements about J.P. Holding in this post were written by J.P. Holding himself."

Freethinkaluva

- "Malachi151" is R.G. Price & "rationalrevolution".net from the Richard Dawkins forum who admits throughout this thread that he has never actually read Acharya's work. It was also demonstrated throughout this thread that he has a serious case of professional jealousy towards Acharya & her work. Even though he uses some of the same sources in his own work. He created a thread that was an entire straw man argument at the Dawkins forum that burned out quickly as he lost credibility when folks realized he'd never read anything by Acharya. He really embarrassed himself at the Dawkins forum as his true colors were brought to light there.

It appears that Price is here further spreading his own smear campaign against Acharya's work, work that he has never read. You haven't changed a bit have you Price.

"Suns of God" by Acharya
http://richarddawkins.net/forum/view...st=0&sk=t&sd=a