Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Contemptuoso · 07-17-2005, 08:58 AM

Armenian or Calvinist?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, it doesn't really make any difference does it? a creator that knows all, knows who will believe in him and who wont, right. Something in the make up of Adam and Eve meant that 600 generations later, some of their descendants wouldn't believe. God created them that way. God pre determined that these descendants would go to hell. why make them that way? Come to think of it, why allow the fall of man? Free will doesn't cut it because there are plenty of things that i cannot do right now, i think flight would be fun but we were created with that limitation, why not the one that prevents us from eternal damnation? You could say that god wants us to choose a relationship with him, but it isn't the same thing. What we are dealing with is something which prevents some of us from believing the biblical god even exists. It seems somewhat cruel to even allow this. The whole Christian faith rests on the ressurection of Jesus. What evidence is there for the idea? A massive culture exists because of an event that the gospels cannot seem to agree on. You wouldn't expect any jury to believe the testimonies of Mthw Mrk Lke and Jhn regarding the ressurection.

I was watching a documentary about the Manson family. They believed that Charles Manson was the second coming. They witnessed him performing miracles. they thought he was to go through a modern day crucifiction, and he did, more or less. Bearing in mind that i'm sure in the days of Jesus it was as bad or worse than murder to claim that you were god (or strongly imply). Why don't they write some gospels of their own, about the teachings of Charles manson?

Forgive the bad structure of this post. I am blind drunk as i write this. Peace.

P.S. Go here. http://christiananswers.net/gospel/goingtoheaven.html. Asks some incredibly deep questions of the intellectuals in America. Some shocking facts in there too. It will blow your tiny rational mind.

PPS. How do i post something as a link?

Chris Weimer · 07-17-2005, 10:33 AM

If I'm predetermined to go to hell, then what? Why would anyone "want" to love a god that knowingly sends them to hell? I say that God is a selfish coward, and then it becomes a rejection in principle. God is Hitler.

Chris Weimer · 07-17-2005, 10:34 AM

BTW - this doesn't belong in BC&H

Contemptuoso · 07-17-2005, 10:50 AM

Where does it belong?

In england you are not legally allowed to have sex until you are sixteen, because you are not deemed able to make such an important decision. Yet, we have children being preached to about christianity and other systems with no factual grounding from the age of one. I say, wait till their eighteen, hopefully educated and more or less reasonable and with no religious inclination whatsoever, give them a bible or torah, quran or whatever they want and say read this and see what you think. No hypnotic symbols no church no evangelists no congregation just the supposed word of god and the reader. i think we would have less religion in the world. I dislike the term free thinker as it implies no bias whatsoever which is rarely, if ever, the case.

Amaleq13 · 07-17-2005, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

BTW - this doesn't belong in BC&H

I agree and it is just a question of figuring out where it belongs in order to move it.

Amaleq13, BC&H moderator

Chris Weimer · 07-17-2005, 07:21 PM

General Religious Discussions (is a BC&H mod position open

)

John A. Broussard · 07-17-2005, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contemptuoso

P.S. Go here. http://christiananswers.net/gospel/goingtoheaven.html. Asks some incredibly deep questions of the intellectuals in America. Some shocking facts in there too. It will blow your tiny rational mind.

It's a wonderful site.

I especially liked:
"Are You Going to Heaven? - A wonderfully easy way to share Christ with friends, family or strangers! A contemporary presentation that clearly and accurately explains the way of salvation through Jesus Christ.
[More Information] US$19.99

Toto · 07-17-2005, 08:40 PM

1st of all, it's Arminian, not Armenian.

2nd, posts that are posted while intoxicated are good candidates for Elsewhere. But this does seem to raise some issues that are considered serious by people who are not intoxicated, so it's off to GRD.

Contemptuoso · 07-18-2005, 03:15 AM

Apologies for the spelling mistake.
Its certainly an issue which should be discussed in a serious manner...maybe.

I don't feel that the post itself was disrespectful or particularly trivialising. I pointed out i was drunk for fear of....spelling mistakes, grammatical errors and other things which might offend.

Anyway, I still asked a question and would appreciate some discussion on the subject.

God bless you all.

TGR · 07-18-2005, 07:27 AM

Calivinist basically.

07-17-2005, 08:58 AM	#1
Contemptuoso Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: England. Posts: 20	lucky me! Armenian or Calvinist? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, it doesn't really make any difference does it? a creator that knows all, knows who will believe in him and who wont, right. Something in the make up of Adam and Eve meant that 600 generations later, some of their descendants wouldn't believe. God created them that way. God pre determined that these descendants would go to hell. why make them that way? Come to think of it, why allow the fall of man? Free will doesn't cut it because there are plenty of things that i cannot do right now, i think flight would be fun but we were created with that limitation, why not the one that prevents us from eternal damnation? You could say that god wants us to choose a relationship with him, but it isn't the same thing. What we are dealing with is something which prevents some of us from believing the biblical god even exists. It seems somewhat cruel to even allow this. The whole Christian faith rests on the ressurection of Jesus. What evidence is there for the idea? A massive culture exists because of an event that the gospels cannot seem to agree on. You wouldn't expect any jury to believe the testimonies of Mthw Mrk Lke and Jhn regarding the ressurection. I was watching a documentary about the Manson family. They believed that Charles Manson was the second coming. They witnessed him performing miracles. they thought he was to go through a modern day crucifiction, and he did, more or less. Bearing in mind that i'm sure in the days of Jesus it was as bad or worse than murder to claim that you were god (or strongly imply). Why don't they write some gospels of their own, about the teachings of Charles manson? Forgive the bad structure of this post. I am blind drunk as i write this. Peace. P.S. Go here. http://christiananswers.net/gospel/goingtoheaven.html. Asks some incredibly deep questions of the intellectuals in America. Some shocking facts in there too. It will blow your tiny rational mind. PPS. How do i post something as a link?

07-17-2005, 10:50 AM	#4
Contemptuoso Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: England. Posts: 20	Ra Where does it belong? In england you are not legally allowed to have sex until you are sixteen, because you are not deemed able to make such an important decision. Yet, we have children being preached to about christianity and other systems with no factual grounding from the age of one. I say, wait till their eighteen, hopefully educated and more or less reasonable and with no religious inclination whatsoever, give them a bible or torah, quran or whatever they want and say read this and see what you think. No hypnotic symbols no church no evangelists no congregation just the supposed word of god and the reader. i think we would have less religion in the world. I dislike the term free thinker as it implies no bias whatsoever which is rarely, if ever, the case.

07-18-2005, 03:15 AM	#9
Contemptuoso Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: England. Posts: 20	oh man Apologies for the spelling mistake. Its certainly an issue which should be discussed in a serious manner...maybe. I don't feel that the post itself was disrespectful or particularly trivialising. I pointed out i was drunk for fear of....spelling mistakes, grammatical errors and other things which might offend. Anyway, I still asked a question and would appreciate some discussion on the subject. God bless you all.

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07-17-2005, 10:33 AM	#2
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	If I'm predetermined to go to hell, then what? Why would anyone "want" to love a god that knowingly sends them to hell? I say that God is a selfish coward, and then it becomes a rejection in principle. God is Hitler.

07-17-2005, 10:34 AM	#3
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	BTW - this doesn't belong in BC&H

07-17-2005, 07:21 PM	#6
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	General Religious Discussions (is a BC&H mod position open )

07-17-2005, 08:40 PM	#8
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	1st of all, it's Arminian, not Armenian. 2nd, posts that are posted while intoxicated are good candidates for Elsewhere. But this does seem to raise some issues that are considered serious by people who are not intoxicated, so it's off to GRD.

07-18-2005, 07:27 AM	#10
TGR Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Pretoria (South Africa) Posts: 110	Calivinist basically.

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