dado

unless you have a rabbinical bible - a Mikra'ot Gedolot - you'll have to get your hands on one of these...

http://www.soncino.com/Midrashset.html

i'm afraid Jewish texts don't form quite as neat and tidy a set as some would like.

dado

i'm not really sure. one the one hand, they (sort of) accept some of the Jewish prophets, on the other hand, i can't think of any widely recognized c'ian prophets and googling keeps bringing up the Jewish names. interesting question, i never really thought about it...

...Magdlyn? you have input on this?

NOGO

You missed the point.
Let me put it another way.
Do you deny that concept of prophecy exists in the Jewish Bible?

dado

it comes down to...can you get a critical mass of Jews to accept what you are saying?

eeeeh...yuck. that implies a closing of the past, but the past is never closed, it reverberates through time. names change, details change, but the core stories/myths are eternal. until we can legimately refer to the "old" human nature, i don't see that changing.

dado

no, but it does not exist there exclusively. prophecy is a universal concept, not a Jewish one. if you are suggesting "visions of the future" somehow imply an omiscient G-d, i completely and utterly disagree. Jewish prophecy is generally of the form "if you keep doing this stupid stuff, the poop is going to hit the fan".

no omiscience required. technically, no G-d even required.

NOGO

So if I find a prophecy which is not of the type that you describe and which requires omniscience then you will admit that you are dead wrong about this and Jep's daughter. Right?

dado

take your best shot.

omniscience and prophecy are incompatible: if everything is known, prophecy isn't prophecy, it is knowledge.

NOGO

There are actually hundreds to chose from.
I was not able to locate the first one that came to mind so here is the second.
This is a prophecy about the destruction of Tyre.

Let us not waste time on when this prophecy occurred or if it will occur in the future.

"You will never be rebuilt"
Tyre has been destroyed and rebuilt several times since Ezekiel's prophecy.
My point is simple this is not a prophecy of the kind that you are talking about. It required omniscience to state that Tyre will never be rebuilt.
This is not "if you continue like this the poop will hit the fan".
The poop did hit the fan and Tyre was rebuilt.

Ezekiel describes in detail what Neb will do to Tyre supposedly before it happened. Again it required omniscience to know that unless Exekiel was guessing.

dado

if you're going to make your case, you need a prophecy that both requires omniscience AND is fulfilled. otherwise all you're demonstrating is the prophet was wrong. a claim to be passing along G-d's vision is just that - a claim.

in this case, you'd probably be right about the wrongnes: ezekiel is so fraught with problems there have been numerous attempts to drop it from the Jewish canon. at one point it was, in fact, dropped, but one of the ancient sages came up with some reasons long since lost in time about why it should stay. so there it is, warts and all.

that said, it requires absolutely no omniscience whatsoever to predict the leader of the main inland empire would go after the leading port trading city in the region....

NOGO

You are making diversions.
I am not interested in whether Ezekiel or Yahweh was right or wrong.
My point is that the prophecy made requires omniscience.
If you claim that the prophecy about the destruction of Tyre was fulfilled then the part about it never being rebuilt was not. You are then forced to say that it was not fulfilled yet. In that case the part about it wont be rebuilt cannot be linked to anthing that occurred during Ezekiel's time. If Tyre will be destroyed and never be rebuilt sometime in the future then it required omniscience to make such a prophecy 2600 years ago.

Irrelevant to our discussion.
I will have other example from other books in the Bible. You cannot delete them all can you.

Irrelevant.
My point is about the fact that Tyre will never be rebuilt and the details that Ezekiel claims that Yahweh told him concerning what Neb will do to Tyre. For example that the city would be thrown into the sea, among other things.

Please stick to the topic. Generalities such as the above do not help your cause.