Evoken

A christian in another board posted the following:

What would you reply with?

The first thing that comes to my mind is the whole thing about israel being god's chosen people, jesus granting secret knowledge to the apostles, giving the keys to peter and promising the holy spirit to them. Even tho they are painted in a bad light at times, it seems that it doesn't matters and they still find favor in god's eyes.


Evo

Chris Weimer

That means that Zeus exists, - I mean, look at how pathetic Achilles is when he cowers in his tent because his girl got taken away.

And besides, isn't Jesus presented as "perfect". Obviously, that must be the "unrealistic" side part.

Joan of Bark

Many historical documents present the bad as well as the good. That is what makes history. However, much of the "bad" presented in the Bible is merely a way to prop up the idea that God is perfect and merciful. If all the main characters were presented as perfect, what role would God serve?

Malachi151

This is a totally bogus argument, which fails to recognize the real symbolism and meaning the Gospels. "The bad" stuff is there on purpose and serves specific important roles in the story.

neilgodfrey

The Greeks treated their Homer as a bit like their "scriptures". All of Homer's heroes are flawed. The Greek king who led the expedition to Troy sinned against Apollo with the consequence that victory was delayed and many more Greek lives lost. And as Chris said here, the real hero of the Iliad, Achilles, sulks in his tent when he should be out fighting and again many more Greek lives are lost than necessary, including his own close partner's life. They are no less flawed and heroic than the Bible's Saul and David.

Hell, the Greeks were even open about the character flaws in their gods! The admitted it when their gods were jealous and unjustly killed innocent or not very sinful humans.

Now can you find anything as "realistic" as that about the divinity in the Bible? :devil:

Neil Godfrey

http://vridar.wordpress.com

-Jay-

A major theme running through the Hebrew Bible is that of reward/punishment. When times are good, it's because God is pleased with Israel, when times are bad, it's because somebody screwed up and God needs to calibrate the entire population. The "wickedness" and whatnot are often (not always, but often) set-ups to explain some national or cultural tragedy that follows.

butswana

If the character is the bible didn't fuck up there would only be four characters and it wouldn't have been written.
"Fuck you, snake. Eat that apple yourself!"

Chili

This may not be you reply but you know, they say that the cross of eternal salvation is for sinners only so maybe it is a good thing to be a sinner. Remember here that the Laws were given to Moses not to stop the orgy but to attach the concept sin to it for which the Laws were writ upon the heart of man as if in stone so that the inner [consience] of man can convict the outer man of his [now seen as] wretchedness. If you add here that the concept "sin seized that opportunity [and] used the commandment to rouse in me all kinds of evil desire" it is rather obvious that Moses wanted to intensify the heat by concealing the forbidden fruit in honey to make it sweeter than wine.

The bible shows how sinners are called as the lost sheep that have gone astray against the inner virtues of the tribe and it is upon those that God's favor rests.

Roland

ALL literature involves flawed characters. Without them, there would be NO DRAMA. In fact, imperfect people are the life's blood of literature.

What a ludicrous argument!

RAFH

The bible is not about people, its about their imaginary friend in the sky. So, yeah, it paints the people as flawed and god as overwhelming. Throughout the Hebrew culture, which essentially begins with the arrival in Canaan, that's been the ethos, man is flawed, which is why god is constantly having to teach them lessons and bail their asses out. The whole narrative previous to that is borrowed from whatever and whoever they could. The narrative after that is apologetics for everything the Judeans experience, up to the NT, where the narrative changes from the Judeans to the early xians. The two are only slightly related.