aa5874

The STAGE has been set but where is HJ?

HJ is NOT on stage. HJ is in YOUR IMAGINATION.

The Jewish Temple fell and Jerusalem was destroyed but there was NO Jewish Messiah as expected at around 70 CE by the Jews..

Even Josephus who FOUGHT with the Jews AGAINST the Romans declared, like Tacitus and Suetonius that VESPASIAN was the Messianic ruler as PREDICTED in Hebrew Scripture.

See "Wars of the Jews" 6.5.4, Suetonius "Life of Vespasian" and Tacitus "Histories".

There was NO Jewish Messiah up to the Fall of the Jewish Temple.


There you go again with CONJECTURE and Speculation.

You have ALREADY declared that you are a NON-BELIEVER.

You do NOT BELIEVE the Jesus story in the NT so why are you using the same source that you DON'T believe.

Come on. This is so very basic.

You NEED a credible source of antiquity WITH DETAILS that YOU can BELIEVE.

Why can't you understand that your position is HOPELESS.

1. The authors of gMatthew and gMark did NOT claim that they were writing history.

2. You have ASSUMED they were writing history.

3. You do NOT Believe their history of Jesus.

4. You have no CREDIBLE source of antiquity WITH DETAILS of YOUR JESUS.


Again, you only provide CONJECTURE and no CREDIBLE source of antiquity for YOUR Jesus.

As a NON-BELIEVER you do NOT accept the Jesus stories as described in the NT so please give me the CREDIBLE source of antiquity with the DETAILS of your Jesus.

Please ADHERE to the OP.

You are an ADMITTED NON-BELIEVER. You do NOT BELIEVE the Jesus stories in the NT so you MUST show me the CREDIBLE source of antiquity WITH DETAILS that you BELIEVE.

As a NON-BELIEVER you should know that Jesus was DESCRIBED as the Child of the Holy Ghost, Pilate was a Governor, Herod was King and Tiberius was Emperor.

Where ARE the DETAILS for your Jesus?

They are in your HEAD because you DON'T believe the Jesus stories in the NT.

steve_bnk

You stuck in a rut and do not comprehnd what I am saying. I am not defending the accriacy of the NT. No need for you to respond any of my posts.

aa5874

It is you who cannot answer the question but keep on making CONJECTURES.

You claim that you do NOT believe the Jesus stories, as a NON-BELIEVER, yet you ASSUME that the history of YOUR Jesus is in the very NT that you discredit.

You are STUCK in a RUT.

You are in complete contradictory position.

You assume the NT contains the history of YOUR Jesus but do NOT accept the NT as a Credible source for the history of Jesus.

There is ONLY one way to get out of your RUT and it is by PROVIDING us with the CREDIBLE source of antiquity WITH DETAILS of your Jesus.

What really is the difference between a person who BELIEVES 99% of the Jesus story is history and a NON-BELIEVER who "BELIEVES" 1% is history WITHOUT any credible corroborative source of antiquity?

Please provide the DETAILS of YOUR Jesus from sources of antiquity for the percentage of what you BELIEVE in the NT.

In the NT, Pliate was a Governor, Tiberius was an Emperor, Herod was King, Caiaphas was high Priest, Philip Herod was tetrarch, Gabriel was an ANGEL, and Jesus was the Child of a Ghost, and the Creator.

Why don't you BELIEVE it was a story about the Child of a Ghost and was NOT HISTORY when as a NON-BELIEVER you DON'T accept the NT Jesus?

Why is not Jesus just a story?

steve_bnk

Knock off the ad-homs and read what I write. I do not believe in the religious aspects or in a factual inerancy. To me it is not just a story given the fact of Christianity and the times. Some HJ makes more sense to me than a complete fabrication. I do not believe in the biblical scale flood, but I believe there may have been a watery adventure for the family of an ancient Jew which became the basis of the Noah tale.

As an example of myth creation, when the last great tsunami occured in the Indian Ocean a small island was flooded. In an interview a native said there was an ancient story that periodically god sent a great flood to destroy and renew 'the world'. Part of the tale was a directive that if water suddenly draws oiut to sea, run inalnd. Cultural myths tend to have a basis in reality. Natural tsunamis over long times become attached to a religious/cultural signifigance.

Remember the times. Multiple retellings over a long period followed by a written form. A wandering rabai helping a sick man get well becomes raising Lazurus from the dead.

It is not so easy to dismiss the JC story as a complete historical fabrication.

aa5874

You have NOT identified a single ad-hom but is engaged in rhetoric. You need to be specific and not make unsubstantiated claims.

Are you now ADMITTING that there was an "historical flood" and ALL FLOOD stories are based on ONE SPECIFIC "historical flood"?

Please, Please, Please. Let us NOT DIVERT from the issue at hand. I am not really dealing with Flood stories.

You claim that as a NON-BELIEVER that you do NOT BELIEVE the NT Jesus story as found.

Well, instead of rhetoric and conjectures, please STATE the Credible source of antiquity that YOU BELIEVE.

That is all.

You are demonstrating that you have NO credible sources of antiquity WITH DETAILS for YOUR Jesus. You talk about Noah, the flood, and Tsunamis but UTTERLY FAIL to provide the credible source of antiquity that you BELIEVE.

As a NON-BELIEVER you REJECT the resurrection story of Lazarus in the NT so please show the source of antiquity that claimed Jesus was a wandering rabbi who helped a sick man get well and that the man was NOT really dead for FOUR DAYS.

I told you so. Your Jesus your is in your OWN HEAD.

You are in a RUT.

You are a NON-BELIEVER who BELIEVES there are DETAILS of your Jesus in the very NT that you DON'T Believe.

Of course, it is EXTREMELY EASY to dismiss the JC story as historical fabrication.

Just read Matthew 1.18, Luke 1.26-35, John 1.1-4, Mark 6.49, Mark 9.2, Mark 16.6, Acts 1.9 and Galatians 1.1-12.

I won't dismiss Pilate the Governor.

I won't dismiss Tiberius the Emperor.

I won't dismiss Caiaphas the High Preist.

I won't dismiss John the Baptist.


I WILL EASILY DISMISS Jesus Christ the Child of the Holy Ghost as historical fabrication.

I WILL EASILY DISMISS YOUR JESUS ALSO since you have NOT provided the credible source WITH DETAILS of your Jesus.

radius

But is the Noah/Flood story not actually a good example of archetypal phenomena being fleshed out into stories? Spring rebirth is enacted in the story of Noah, as it is in the story of Isis. Is that not the nature of much of mythology? There is no euhemeristic imperative in most myth-building. Of course there would have been heavy rains and floods (and apocalyptic preachers), but the story arose from deeper tropes rather than from a particularly bad rainy season.

I suspect it may be millennia of Christianity's insistence on historicity that now compels us to look for linear historical explanations for myth. Or some myths at least. Christianity's own myths appear to have arisen much more quickly than that of, say, Perseus or Prometheus - yet we do not seriously attach much credence to the idea that there must have been a historical Prometheus around whom mythical elements accrued with the retelling of the story over time. It seems particularly back-to-front in the case of the Jesus story, given that it started with basic mystical elements of salvation and actually gathered 'historical' elements as it progressed.

mountainman

I disagree. Have a think about the historical packaging of the earliest Greek new testaments in the Constantine Bible. By the "packaging" I refer directly to other texts authored by the editor of the Constantine Bible and published with this text, such as "Church History", "In Preparation for the Bullshit", "Geographical Place Names", "Gruesome Tales of Early Christian Martyrs", "The Ammonian Canon Tables". We might even add the "Historia Augusta". If you have a look at the Historia Augusta is it a recognised complete historical fabrication, prepared for the elite upper classes, who prefered entertainment to history. It is dedicated to the Emperor Constantine.

aa5874

Again, you have not provided the sources of antiquity that can show DETAILS of an historical Jesus.

This thread is NOT about assumptions.

I need the credible sources of antiquity with DETAILS of the historical Jesus.

In the NT, Tiberius was Emperor, Pilate was a Governor, Philip Herod was tetrarch, Caiaphas was a High Priest, Gabriel was an ANGEL, and Jesus was the Child of a Holy Ghost and a Virgin, the Creator, and the Word who was God.

By, the way how does Jesus get FLESH if he was the Child of a Ghost?

If Jesus had human FLESH how come he used to WALK on water?

Mt 14:25-26 I need credible historical sources of antiquity with DETAILS of the historical Jesus because in the NT even the disciples BELIEVED Jesus was a SPIRIT and CRIED out for FEAR.

Even in the NT stories , the disciples realized they were dealing with a SPIRIT and Not Flesh.

mountainman

Hi aa5874,

You may be able to answer a question about the "Ghost" business and the "Spirit" business. AFAIK the new testament greek word that is translated as "Ghost" is also translated as "Spirit". My question is whether this word which is so translated from the Greek, is the same word that is to be found in the Greek of Plato (and the Greek lineage of Platonists) which is translated as "Spirit", as in Plato's famous trinity of the "One Spirit Soul"?


Because it was backed by an exceedingly powerful and despotic militaristic Roman Emperor at the time he became the sole supreme authority in the entire Roman Empire. He exploited the newly emergent codex technology to pervert the course of history and unite the Roman Empire by means of a centralised monotheistic state religious cult (cloned from the Sassanid Persian State Zoroastrianism, and a forerunner to Islam) and to seek the canonization of the New Testament Story as a "Holy Writ" to serve as the basis of the cult.

Constantine failed to achieve immediate canonization but nevertheless it was an exceedingly successful takeover bid. The planet has not yet recovered from this boundary event, but the hold of the church has been greatly reduced in the last century, and new evidence and new dating technologies have emerged to encourage those who seek the truth of christian origins to ask the obvious questions. Those questions which, in centuries past, would have resulted in persecution by the powers of the christian churches, and death, and execution, and political exile. Questions such as, did Constantine and Eusebius engage in criminal activities?

Best wishes



Pete

aa5874

All I understand is that a Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit is a myth. It is most amusing that it is recorded in the NT that human beings were able to kill a Holy Ghost with NAILS.

You know what kind of NAILS can kill a Holy Ghost?

At this time I need to see the historical sources of antiquity with DETAILS of the historical Jesus.

If Jesus was just an ordinary OBSCURE man what prompted "Paul" to claim all OVER the Roman Empire that Jesus was the End of the Law and that every knee should bow before the name of Jesus.

"Paul" is the first to claim he was NOT the apostle of a Man and did NOT get his Gospel from man but from the revelation of Jesus Christ who was raised from the dead.

Who has details of the historical Jesus from credible sources of antiquity?