aa5874

I seen claims about the "historical Jesus" but have NOT seen the credible sources of antiquity to support those claims.

Where can one find the description of the "historical Jesus", his occupation, what he said or did do?

Let us look at gMark.

In gMark, the author mentioned a character called Pilate who asked Jesus some questions but gave no details of Pilate.

Now, if one wanted to find DETAILS of Pilate then some other source MUST be found.

We cannot JUST GUESS the Biography of Pilate.

And further, any mention of Pilate in the NT can be used to acquire MORE details of him. One MUST use the details of PILATE found in other sources and CANNOT IGNORE them and INVENT their own Biography.

The author of gMark MENTIONED PILATE ten times and did NOT give any other DETAIL but the name PILATE.

Mark 15.1 It is in gMatthew, and gLuke where there are DETAILS of PILATE and he was Governor of Judea under Tiberius.

Matt 27:2 - Luke 3:1 - But, who was Jesus in gMark? There is NOTHING about the birth of Jesus in gMark.

Who were his Parents and when was he born? Are there OTHER DETAILS about Jesus just as we found DETAILS of Pilate ?

Well, there are MORE DETAILS of Jesus in gMatthew, gLuke and gJohn.

In gMatthew and gLuke Jesus was the Child of the Holy Ghost and BORN of a Virgin and in gJohn he was the Creator of heaven and earth and was GOD.

Mt 1:18 - Joh 1:1 - Anywhere we see the name PILATE in the NT we can say it REFERS to the Governor called Pontius Pilate.

Anywhere we see Jesus Christ in the NT we can say that it REFERS to Jesus Christ the Child of the Holy Ghost that was God.

Where can WE find DETAILS of the "historical Jesus"?

jgoodguy

There is no tangible, primary or credible secondary sources of the HJ. Happy now.

Of course that has been known for a long time.

mountainman

According to many, the early Christians found Jesus in the Greek LXX, but apart from that there are only three sources:

(1) The canonical books of the New Testament
(2) The noncanonical books of the New Testament
(3) The books of Eusebius Pamphilus of Caesarea

There was a 4th source who was apparently damned and cursed and exiled and poisoned, for what he said about the historical jesus at the time Jesus was nominated for the monotheistic god of the Roman Empire c.325 CE:

There was time when He was not.
Before He was born He was not.
He was made out of nothing existing.
He is/was from another subsistence/substance.
He is subject to alteration or change.

aa5874

Some people here OBVIOUSLY don't know or DON'T care that "There is no tangible, primary or credible secondary sources of the HJ".

steve_bnk

There is no histoirical source with collaboration.

There were a numbner of Jews of the day preaching various forns oif Jewish prohesy/politics/change, a number claiming to be THE Jewish mesisah.

Anti-Roman sentitiment, sedition, and rebellion wa in the air. If you read the JC message of the New Testament as for Jews pertaining to the state of Israel and not the entire world, then it can make sense. He was prophesizing destruction of Israel unless they changed in the grand historical traditition of Jewish prohets, who tended to be treated badly by the Jewish status quo of their times.

'Render to Ceaser what is Ceaser's would be part of a message of adjustment to Rome or face rhe 'end of the world', the end of Israel.

That is my take at an HJ and the reasoning. The JC of the New Testament may well have been a composite character for all we know.

aa5874

But, what is the actual written historical source of antiquity with DETAILS for HJ? I am NOT really concerned about what you BELIEVE about HJ.

It is ALREADY known people BELIEVE ALL SORTS of things.

Please, just REFER to the historical source of antiquity with the DETAILS for HJ.

It has been pointed out to you that the name Pilate, anywhere in the NT, REFERS to PONTIUS PILATE the Governor under Tiberius and the name Jesus Christ anywhere in the NT, REFERS to Jesus Christ the Child of the Holy Ghost who was God and the Creator of heaven and earth.

It must be noted that Christian writers of antiquity have stated that Jesus called Christ in "Antiquities of the Jews" 18.3.3 and 20.9.1 is the very SAME NT Jesus the Child of the Ghost who was God and the Creator.

It MUST also be noted that Christian writers of antiquity have stated that Pontius Pilate in "Antiquities of the Jews" 18 is the very same Pontius Pilate in the NT when the Child of the Ghost, the Creator and God, was crucified after a trial with him.

In effect, Jesus Christ was the Child of the Ghost who was God and Pilate was the Governor anywhere they are mentioned in the writings of antiquity.

Tiberius was an Emperor of Rome anywhere he is mentioned in the writings of antiquity.

I simply NEED a historical source of antiquity for the DETAILS of HJ.

steve_bnk

ALL RIGHT ALREADY NO NEED TO SHOUT

We all know on the secular side 'ad nauseum' there are no historical coroborations, so what's your point?

Where do you get child of the holy ghost from? Son of man/son of god is the picture.

The holy ghost or spirit I believe is something altogether different.

The short answer is there is no historical coroboration, so 'end of thread'...

aa5874

It is MOST fascinating that you would want to know what is the point if there there is NO historical source with DETAILS of HJ.

That is PRECISELY why I have "CAPS" and "RED". It became clear to me long ago that some people have difficulty seeing the source that I am using.

Please look at Matthew 1.18 Jesus was the Child of the Holy Ghost and a Virgin and the Creator who was God in the NT

This cannot be the end of the thread. Not at all. A few persons here claim there was an HJ and PERHAPS have some DETAILS of HJ from a credible source of antiquity.

You have ADMITTED that you don't have any corroborative source so we will see if your position is CORROBORATED by HJers.

steve_bnk

Who is this WE?

My position is not coroborated. There are several methods of historical reconstruction and extrapolation, one being projecting back in the context of what we know from humanity today and documented history.

We know what the times were like with Rome and Israel. You only have to look at the region today to get a feel for the NT times. Religious fundamentalism and religioius nationalism conflicting with major global powers.

The Jewish rebellion evetually happend with the NT prediction of the destruction of oi Israel, aka the 'world'. In the NT JC was a Jewish rabai preaching to Jews. It was Paul that opened it to gentiles.

By analysys JC of the NT was at least a composite of what was going on in the times. Faith healers were not uncommon. Within Rome proper there were a number of religions and cults along with the Roman state religion. For a time Judaism became a fad of sorts. Romans liked the strong patriarchal system.


However, as there is no known coroborartion such as Roman records, the question of independent coroboration is moot. There is no such evidnce or records.

It is not clear to me, are you a believer or skeptic? Your argumernt would be with the believers if you are a skeptic. We have had threads on a possible HJ and evidence of a real JC as depicted in the NT.

What is the point, if you are a skeptic who do you wish to contend with? If you are not a skeptic and will be quoting the NT as fact, then state clearly which side you are on.

aa5874

My question is NOT about Methods of reconstruction and extrapolation. I asked for the historical source of antiquity for DETAILS of HJ.

A rather simple request I would think.

For example, If I asked for DETAILS about Marcion's Phantom Son of God then I can REFER to "First Apology" LVIII.

So, we see some DETAILS about the Phantom.

Marcion's Son of God was the Son of another God and was NOT Jesus Christ.

And we can go to Tertullian's "Against Marcion" for MORE details.

"Against Marcion" 4.7 From "Against Marcion" it is claimed the Phantom came down from heaven to Capernaum.


Now, what is the problem in getting historical sources of antiquity WITH DETAILS of HJ?

Where is the historical source of antiquity with the DETAILS that HJ was an apocalyptic OBSCURE preacher?

In the NT, Jesus Christ was the Child of a Ghost, WELL-KNOWN and had THOUSANDS of followers.

In the NT, Herod was King of Judea.

In the NT, Tiberius was Emperor.

In the NT, Caiaphas was an High Priest.

In the NT, Philip Herod was TETRARCH.

In the NT, Pilate was a Governor of Judea.

All I am asking for is the DETAILS of HJ from a historical source of antiquity.