Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clivedurdle · 10-10-2008, 03:30 PM

The Age of Wonder: How the Romantic Generation Discovered the Beauty and Terror of Science by Richard Holmes

Prologue to this comments that the story of Newton and the Apple may have been a direct reference to another apple as a symbol of a new way of thinking - it was a story made up after Newton's death.

Thoughts?

Joan of Bark · 10-10-2008, 08:50 PM

The Genesis creation story doesn't refer to an apple (which didn't grow in the near east at that time), only to a fruit. It has been speculated that the fruit in question was a fig.

Of course the incorrect association of Eve with an apple may have occured after the story of Newton and the apple (with is probably also fictional).

neilgodfrey · 10-11-2008, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

The Age of Wonder: How the Romantic Generation Discovered the Beauty and Terror of Science by Richard Holmes

Prologue to this comments that the story of Newton and the Apple may have been a direct reference to another apple as a symbol of a new way of thinking - it was a story made up after Newton's death.

Thoughts?

Newton's apple story is certainly as apocryphal as Washington's cherry tree. The story originated post-Newton. Newton himself was too biblically devout to be likely to have played with the apple metaphor without personal guilt.

The apple story has become a paradigm of the new way of thought and discovery, something that Newton himself only dimly shared and with many contradictions. But the suggestion that the apple is "a direct reference to another apple as a symbol of a new way of thinking" does offer a very plausible and interesting explanation for the origin of this bit of "apocrypha".

Neil

Joan of Bark · 10-11-2008, 08:28 PM

Does anyone know when the fruit in Genesis was first referred to as an apple?

Clivedurdle · 10-12-2008, 04:45 AM

Looks like a medieval artist started it - and the fruit used may depend on culture - apples are logical for NW Europeans, other cultures may use other fruit - oranges are not the only fruit!

http://www.coquinaria.nl/english/rec...histrecept.htm

Clivedurdle · 10-12-2008, 04:48 AM

Quote:

1240 A.D.—Albertus Magnus of Cologne, bishop, naturalist, and influential philosopher, agonizes in his De Vegetabilibus over whether a fruit tree has a soul. Albertus' then novel philosophy is that the only way to advance knowledge of nature is by searching for nature's hidden principles rather than by relying on the writings of others, however venerable. Discarding the scholastic concept of fruit as a ready-made product of creation, Albertus held that cultivars developed from wild forms, centuries before Darwin draws similar conclusions about the origin of species.
1470 A.D.—The Fall of Man, a painting by the popular and highly respected Hugo Van Der Goes, in clear detail of both leaves and fruit, depicts an apple tree in the biblical Garden of Eden complete with Adam and Eve and the Devil. Thereafter artists everywhere choose apples for the Garden of Eden, even though the apples were no doubt borrowed from a similar creation story in Greek mythology, causing apple demand among illiterate Christians to plummet. Among learned Christians, e.g. in the monasteries and royal courts, apples continued to flourish.

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/maia/history.html

Chili · 10-12-2008, 10:49 PM

It goes well with our voice box being called the adams apple . . . . better than fig-box for sure.

. . . and yes, plants have a soul or the friut of the vine could not be the body of Christ.

youngalexander · 10-13-2008, 02:29 AM

Man Myth & Magic, pg 110

Quote:

"Aquila of Pontus in Asia Minor, who was converted first to Christianity and then to Judiasm, and translated the Old Testiment into Greek in the second century AD, is the first writer known to have identified the fruit as an apple."

Yeah, yeah, right! Unreferenced & even I can see sum floors.

Grrr, just back from the OZ Skeptic Conf. Strueth, know wunder I'm Gahgah!

mountainman · 10-13-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

The Age of Wonder: How the Romantic Generation Discovered the Beauty and Terror of Science by Richard Holmes

Prologue to this comments that the story of Newton and the Apple may have been a direct reference to another apple as a symbol of a new way of thinking - it was a story made up after Newton's death.

Thoughts?

Dear Clivedurdle,

Newton provided an explanation for the fall of the apple but failed to provide a parallel explanation of how it got up there in the appletree in the first place. When we look at a picture and examine one aspect of the picture we should not presume to know it all.

Best wishes,

Pete

Clivedurdle · 10-16-2008, 02:54 PM

And another similar example may be Frankenstein and the virgin birth!

http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=254628

10-10-2008, 03:30 PM	#1
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Newton and Eve The Age of Wonder: How the Romantic Generation Discovered the Beauty and Terror of Science by Richard Holmes Prologue to this comments that the story of Newton and the Apple may have been a direct reference to another apple as a symbol of a new way of thinking - it was a story made up after Newton's death. Thoughts?

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10-10-2008, 08:50 PM	#2
Joan of Bark Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pua, in northern Thailand Posts: 2,823	The Genesis creation story doesn't refer to an apple (which didn't grow in the near east at that time), only to a fruit. It has been speculated that the fruit in question was a fig. Of course the incorrect association of Eve with an apple may have occured after the story of Newton and the apple (with is probably also fictional).

10-11-2008, 08:28 PM	#4
Joan of Bark Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pua, in northern Thailand Posts: 2,823	Does anyone know when the fruit in Genesis was first referred to as an apple?

10-12-2008, 04:45 AM	#5
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Looks like a medieval artist started it - and the fruit used may depend on culture - apples are logical for NW Europeans, other cultures may use other fruit - oranges are not the only fruit! http://www.coquinaria.nl/english/rec...histrecept.htm

10-12-2008, 10:49 PM	#7
Chili Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 11,885	It goes well with our voice box being called the adams apple . . . . better than fig-box for sure. . . . and yes, plants have a soul or the friut of the vine could not be the body of Christ.

10-16-2008, 02:54 PM	#10
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	And another similar example may be Frankenstein and the virgin birth! http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=254628

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