pariah

then why did christianity start?

i was discussing this with a friend and i was wondering what the biblical scholars here thought of jesus and the start of christianity. even if jesus existed, its highly unlikely he walked on water, cured by laying hands, etc... so how do you think the new testament formed?

sorry if this has been discussed to death, but i coudlnt find any relevant threads. thanks

keyser_soze

The same way mythology builds up around any catchy story. Do you really think all of olympian stories really happened? Then you have a nice paralell...because the ancient greeks believed in those gods enough to kill and die for them. And they built upon those early ur-creations for several centuries, building a large and vast reaching religion out of a bunch of fishermans fantasies. And I think you can thank Paul for the majority of christianity, but that's just a personal view. edit: If you can't get your head around same generation creation and veneration of a deity, take into consideration paul's modern counterpart...L. Ron Hubbard.

Peter Kirby

One view: Jesus was a philosopher-fraud like Apollonius of Tyana in Philostratus or (even better) Peregrinus in Lucian. His followers believed the imposture and lied to get people to believe ideals like their master. Is that alternative sexy enough to be convincing?

best,
Peter Kirby

Postcard73

You might want to check out The Jesus Puzzle by Earl Doherty. The book attempts to prove that a real Jesus of Nazareth never existed. A big part of this involves examining how xianity started without a historical figure...

In a nutshell, Doherty claims that the concept of a risen savior dying for mankind was a common theme of several mystery cults that existed in the Roman world during the time Jesus supposedly lived. However, the entire battle between good and evil, and the eventual salvation of man, all took place only in a pure spiritual realm as understood in Greek philosophy. Doherty repeatedly cites examples from the epistles - including Paul's letters - to show that this is what the earliest Christians believed. He then argues that the gospels and Acts, which were written later, presented a living, incarnate God on Earth in order to make the concept more accessible to the uneducated masses...

Like I said, that is a very brief summation. The book is much deeper than that...

pariah

why would paul start this religion? i mean whats the poitn of starting xianity if jesus didnt exist?

mark9950

To gain power and control,The catholic church has a history of being part of governments that were very powerful and ruthless.

Magus55

Wrong, Christianity didn't have any power over the government until 300 years after it started, when Constantine made it the official religion of Rome. Before that, Christians were persecuted.

Christianity should have never succeeded if Jesus didn't exist. This is even taught in history classes. Atheists are about the only people in the world who doubt Jesus' existence, and probably the majority of atheists don't either, only the fundie ones like on this board.

So to Pariah, Jesus' existence isn't questionable to anyone but atheists. More people believe He existed than almost any other historical figure to ever walk the Earth. Show me one other human figure in history that has made the impact and had the following that Jesus had, that didn't actually exist.

Demigawd

Originally posted by Magus55
So to Pariah, Jesus' existence isn't questionable to anyone but atheists.

How about agnostics, deists, buddhists, hindus, shintoists, etc?

More people believe He existed than almost any other historical figure to ever walk the Earth.

That may be true, actually. Christianity is a very aggressive evangelical meme.

Show me one other human figure in history that has made the impact and had the following that Jesus had, that didn't actually exist.

Santa Claus. But he's just God-with-training-wheels.

Rational BAC

Alternate theories are always interesting. And the idea that Jesus did not exist is definitely on the alternate side. Fun thing to consider but not in any kind of serious way. It is a fun thing to consider lots of strange ideas.

But using that famous Occam's (sp?) razor the most simple explanation is the most viable one.

The most simple and most obvious explanation is that Jesus did exist,----

----(very strange conspiracy theories and the idea that there were a whole bunch of seriously gullible dumbass people from the first century who really shouldn't have been walking around aside)

Now exactly what He said and did? Lord knows. Although considering that what He said and did was carried on a fairly short oral tradition and written down within just a couple of generations---------I think, (give or take some and allowing for later corruption) what is in the Bible about Jesus is probably fairly accurate.

I like conspiracy and alternate theories too. But they are really just intellectual playthings.

nermal

Well, not "human" maybe, but to refute your point that popularity equals existence:

Pick your Hindu God. There are about a billion Hindus on the planet, you know. If numbers are a verification of veracity, how can a billion people be wrong?

Is it just a case of "My god can beat up your god"?


Christians are so damn funny dismissing other religions.

Reverend Lovejoy: "...be they Christian, Jew, or "other.""
Apu: "Hindu! There are seven hundred million of us, you know."

Ed