Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Aspirin99 · 10-11-2005, 10:44 AM

In studying the Virgin Birth, I often see the following quote from Jerome:

Jerome, Adv. Javianum I, 32; N&PNF, vi, 370

However, I've been unable to find the text online. I'm not even sure what some of it stands for. Can someone give a hand? Thanks.

Julian · 10-11-2005, 10:47 AM

Are you sure you don't mean Jerome's Adversus Jovinianum? I could find no references to the title you specify.

Julian

Aspirin99 · 10-11-2005, 11:12 AM

No, I'm not sure of anything on this. However, if you search for just the reference I listed, you'll find a dozen people all copying the following quote, then giving that reference. Here's a sample of what is posted on several websites.

Jerome says, "I know that the Jews are accustomed to meet us with the objection that in Hebrew the word Almah does not mean a Virgin, but a young woman. And, to speak truth, a virgin is properly called Bethulah, but a young woman, or a girl, is not Almah, but Naarah"! (Jerome, Adv. Javianum I, 32; N&PNF, vi, 370.)

CJD · 10-11-2005, 11:20 AM

I'm looking at it (in a real book!) as we speak:

Jerome, Against Jovinianus, Book 1, chapter 32; Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. 6, p. 370. My set is published by Hendrickson.

Following the quote above, Jerome goes on to explain how Rebecca (in Genesis) is also described as an almah, and that the purpose there is to bring out the notion that the "maiden" that came to draw from the well was "a virgin secluded, and guarded by her parents with extreme care." Now, I don't know about all that, but it is my opinion that the Isaiah passage in question is largely misunderstood (by apologists and their counterparts) anyways.

Best,

CJD

Aspirin99 · 10-11-2005, 11:46 AM

Perfect. Thanks for that.

S.C.Carlson · 10-11-2005, 01:25 PM

The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers series has been on-line for a while Here is a link to this page of Jerome's: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf206.vi.vi.I.html

fta · 10-11-2005, 01:52 PM

I see the editor's footnote says "The assertion of Jerome is untenable." What does "Naarah" really mean?

Aspirin99 · 10-11-2005, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.C.Carlson

The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers series has been on-line for a while Here is a link to this page of Jerome's: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf206.vi.vi.I.html

Thanks!

Aspirin99 · 10-12-2005, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fta

I see the editor's footnote says "The assertion of Jerome is untenable." What does "Naarah" really mean?

I ran across this this morning and remembered your post.

If a husband find his new wife "not a maid [bethulah]," then on his complaint her parents must "bring forth the tokens of the virginity [bethulah] of the maid [naarah]" (Deut. 22:14, 15).

fta · 10-13-2005, 12:05 AM

Thanks. So what's the difference between 'almah' and 'naarah' then?

10-11-2005, 10:44 AM	#1
Aspirin99 Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: TalkingTimeline.com Posts: 151	Looking for this work of Jerome In studying the Virgin Birth, I often see the following quote from Jerome: Jerome, Adv. Javianum I, 32; N&PNF, vi, 370 However, I've been unable to find the text online. I'm not even sure what some of it stands for. Can someone give a hand? Thanks.

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10-11-2005, 10:47 AM	#2
Julian Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Washington, DC (formerly Denmark) Posts: 3,789	Are you sure you don't mean Jerome's Adversus Jovinianum? I could find no references to the title you specify. Julian

10-11-2005, 11:12 AM	#3
Aspirin99 Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: TalkingTimeline.com Posts: 151	No, I'm not sure of anything on this. However, if you search for just the reference I listed, you'll find a dozen people all copying the following quote, then giving that reference. Here's a sample of what is posted on several websites. Jerome says, "I know that the Jews are accustomed to meet us with the objection that in Hebrew the word Almah does not mean a Virgin, but a young woman. And, to speak truth, a virgin is properly called Bethulah, but a young woman, or a girl, is not Almah, but Naarah"! (Jerome, Adv. Javianum I, 32; N&PNF, vi, 370.)

10-11-2005, 11:20 AM	#4
CJD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: greater Orlando area Posts: 832	I'm looking at it (in a real book!) as we speak: Jerome, Against Jovinianus, Book 1, chapter 32; Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. 6, p. 370. My set is published by Hendrickson. Following the quote above, Jerome goes on to explain how Rebecca (in Genesis) is also described as an almah, and that the purpose there is to bring out the notion that the "maiden" that came to draw from the well was "a virgin secluded, and guarded by her parents with extreme care." Now, I don't know about all that, but it is my opinion that the Isaiah passage in question is largely misunderstood (by apologists and their counterparts) anyways. Best, CJD

10-11-2005, 11:46 AM	#5
Aspirin99 Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: TalkingTimeline.com Posts: 151	Perfect. Thanks for that.

10-11-2005, 01:25 PM	#6
S.C.Carlson Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA Posts: 1,307	The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers series has been on-line for a while Here is a link to this page of Jerome's: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf206.vi.vi.I.html

10-11-2005, 01:52 PM	#7
fta Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Oceania Posts: 334	I see the editor's footnote says "The assertion of Jerome is untenable." What does "Naarah" really mean?

10-13-2005, 12:05 AM	#10
fta Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Oceania Posts: 334	Thanks. So what's the difference between 'almah' and 'naarah' then?

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