mountainman

We are informed by Eunapius that ...

Lucian of Samosata, who usually took serious pains to raise a laugh, wrote a life of Demonax, a philosopher of his own time, and in that book and a very few others was wholly serious throughout.

The LIFE OF DEMONAX - by Lucian, makes an interesting read of a purported
figure of the second century.

Relevant to BC&H however, there is no reference in this text of Lucian
to "christianity", as there clearly exists in his work Life of Peregrine.

Can anyone advise whether, aside from the Life of Peregrine ref, is
"christianity" referred to by Lucian in any of his other writings?
AFAIK, there are no other explicit references, although there do
exist a number of other references which are seen as possible
implied references.

spin

Try his Alexander:

A time came when a number of sensible people began to shake off their intoxication and combine against him, chief among them the numerous Epicureans; in the cities, the imposture with all its theatrical accessories began to be seen through. It was now that he resorted to a measure of intimidation; he proclaimed that Pontus was overrun with atheists and Christians, who presumed to spread the most scandalous reports concerning him; he exhorted Pontus, as it valued the God's favour, to stone these men.

mountainman

Thanks spin.

spin

I should mention there's a second paragraph which deals in passing with christians in Alexander.


spin

S.C.Carlson

This Alexander flourished in the third quarter of the second century. Could these Christians in Pontus actually be Marcionites?

Stephen

spin

It sounds possible (right place, basically right time), but I don't know if Marcionites called themselves christians.


spin

andrewcriddle

I think they did, thought I can not for the moment think of a quote to prove it.

Certainly "Christian" was used as a self-designation by several highly unorthodox groups, and Marcion certainly claimed to be a follower of Christ.

(In parts of Syria "Christian" seems to have been used primarily for unorthodox groups, probably including Marcionites who were numerous in the area, with the result that orthodox Christians were called "Palutians" after a prominent orthodox bishop.)

Andrew Criddle

mountainman

As I understand things Lucian is traditionally perceived to be one
of the earliest "external witnesses in the literary tradition to provide
an attestation to the existence of christianity". Lucian lived from
about 125 to about 200 A.D.

However we have other historians placing the date of the Emperor
Marcus Aurelius' "Meditations" c.167, at which stage Lucian would
have been (about) 42 years.

I have pointed out earlier that the emperor's text has a reference
to christians, which must also be considered as another one of the
earliest attestations.

The question I am leading to of course is the comparitive assessment
of the dating of Lucian's 1) Alexander the False Prophet, and 2) The
Life of Peregrine, and that of the emperor's "Meditations" (167 CE??)

Is it the (current) opinion that between these two authors, it is Lucian
who before the year of 167 CE, wrote either of the above two works,
and therefore takes priority over Marcus Aurelius, for the earliest
reference to christians, between the two of them?

spin

Peregrinus -165
Alexander >180


spin

mountainman

Peregrinus therefore must be awarded priority over Meditations
by the period of perhaps two years.

I must say I am impressed with Lucian, in that it is his claim
that he personally associated with his literary subject Demonax.

Lucian appears to take pride in elucidating the strange mix of
qualities by which Demonax is shown to somehow stand taller
than his peers.

His writings, to a novice like myself, appear rather formidable,
especially since I need to rely upon a translator. One introductory
text I stashed wayback, until I was up to Lucian, commences
as follows:

Still, 80 odd texts represents a bit of research to better understand
the author Lucian, and perhaps equally as important, to understand
which texts are Lucian, and which texts are for-heaven's-sake other
authors of antiquity.

I knew that this particular author would represent alot of work, in the
study of his contributions and the study of the attribution of pseudo-
attributions to Lucian. However I think I can say that all of these
concerns over the labour of textual research have already been in
one sense rewarded, by my reading of his "Life of Demonax" which
impressed me in its simplicity and wealth of philosophical insight.