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Old 04-11-2009, 01:08 PM   #1
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Default Help in Hebrew needed: Ten Commandments at the Supreme Court

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USSC Ten Commandments, Interesting claim

Quote:
> [The] Tablet Moses is holding contains four or five lines of Hebrew characters.
>The top three lines translated into English read: "Thou shall commit murder."
>"Thou shall commit adultery." "Steal."
> See photo and description at:
http://www.jmcenter.org/pages/south_wall_frieze.html.

> Jay Sekulo (probably in response to my request of him earlier that morning)
>confirmed this in his oral arguments in Pleasant Grove City v. Summum on
>November 12, 2008 when he said: "No, the words on the Court's frieze are
>"steal," "murder," "adultery" in Hebrew." Then Justice Ginsburg chimed in:
>"Yes." (At page 9. Transcript available here
> http://www.jmcenter.org/UserDocs/PGC...t_oral_arg.pdf )

> The fourth and fifth lines do not have sufficient Hebrew characters to
>translate.

> Adolph Weinman spoofed the Supreme Court by not chiseling in the Hebrew
>character for "lo" ("not" in English). It is my understanding that the Curator's
>Office informed Chief Justice Rehnquist of this in 1997 and the Court had
>chosen not to disclose it until I forced the issue with a letter I hand
>delivered to the Court on November 10, 2008 (and to the American Center
>for Law and Justice/Jay Sekulow) requesting that the Court delay oral
>arguments in the Summum case until it disclosed a correct English
>translation of the Hebrew on the tablet held by Moses.
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Old 04-12-2009, 01:25 AM   #2
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Yes, in each line the prefix "LO" לא is covered by the beard, thus לא תרצח׃ "Not shall thou murder" appears to become the opposite, תרצח׃ the declarative "Thou shalt murder".

Of course anyone proficient in Hebrew would recognise that the beard is simply covering the initial "LO". The design of the sculpture implies its presence.
Kind of like if you were to photograph a billboard, and a lamp-post or building covered one or more letters, so making it appear to alter the intended meaning.

Jim Alison who admits he cannot read Hebrew, is in his reasoning, making the common mistake of thinking that the the Hebrew word order follows the English.
Hebrew negatives read literally as "Not shall thou...", it is an English syntax convention that turns the phrase around into "Thou shall not..."
And the "thou shall" or "shalt thou" does not actually exist as separate words in the Hebrew phrase but are included within the single word for "murder", Thus in its simplest sense The Hebrew is "Not (shall you) murder", English usage requires the "shall you" or "you shall".
Perhaps just "Do not murder" would be the most accurate English rendition, but we tend to be tradition bound when it comes to reciting the well known and traditional King James English phrasing.
And for most, who not proficient in the languages, the text they are familiar with becomes quite sacrosanct, as there is a fear of inadvertently altering the words of scripture.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:47 AM   #3
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Christianity took the Latin on board instead of Jesus' mother tongue - and mistakes will happen. In Isaiah, they made a mistake with 'maiden', and translated it as 'virgin'. And Jesus? that's a Latin name too. I'm certain some Roman Emperors are smirking.
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Old 04-12-2009, 08:18 AM   #4
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Good grief Joseph! Did you even bother to follow Toto's links and actually read what is being discussed?
A clue dude, the subject is the HEBREW wording of the tablet held by "Moses" that appears high on the South wall of The United States Supreme Courtroom.
This discussion is NOT about Christianity,
it is NOT about Latin,
it is NOT about Christian mistakes,
it is NOT about Jesus.

IT IS however about HEBREW writing, something that you have repeatedly shown yourself to be woefully ignorant about.
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Old 04-12-2009, 10:56 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar View Post
IT IS however about HEBREW writing, something that you have repeatedly shown yourself to be woefully ignorant about.
Ah yes... but "Hebrew" itself comes from the Latin "Hebraeus."

Gotcha thar, didn't I?



razly
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Old 04-12-2009, 06:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar View Post
Good grief Joseph! Did you even bother to follow Toto's links and actually read what is being discussed?
A clue dude, the subject is the HEBREW wording of the tablet held by "Moses" that appears high on the South wall of The United States Supreme Courtroom.
This discussion is NOT about Christianity,
it is NOT about Latin,
it is NOT about Christian mistakes,
it is NOT about Jesus.

IT IS however about HEBREW writing, something that you have repeatedly shown yourself to be woefully ignorant about.

I appreciate what you say - however I refered to the source which created those monuments and documents - that they did not take this from an original Hebrew source. Such errors could not occur in original Hebrew writings, which have fail-safe criteria - each Hebrew alphabet is also a numeral, and its sum totals have to be tallied in words and verses. 'LO' = a sum of two - its omission would have thrown the math check and red signals of alarm would prompt the writer. This is why such errors are not seen in the scrolls.
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Old 04-12-2009, 06:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razlyubleno View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar View Post
IT IS however about HEBREW writing, something that you have repeatedly shown yourself to be woefully ignorant about.
Ah yes... but "Hebrew" itself comes from the Latin "Hebraeus."

Gotcha thar, didn't I?



razly

And the Latin cometh from the Greek Septuagint. Jews never used Latin - this was the sole pervay of Roman, than christianity. There is a loss of translation here. And if this is the case - it says a lot!
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Old 04-12-2009, 06:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamJoseph View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar View Post
Good grief Joseph! Did you even bother to follow Toto's links and actually read what is being discussed?
A clue dude, the subject is the HEBREW wording of the tablet held by "Moses" that appears high on the South wall of The United States Supreme Courtroom.
This discussion is NOT about Christianity,
it is NOT about Latin,
it is NOT about Christian mistakes,
it is NOT about Jesus.

IT IS however about HEBREW writing, something that you have repeatedly shown yourself to be woefully ignorant about.

I appreciate what you say - however I refered to the source which created those monuments and documents - that they did not take this from an original Hebrew source. Such errors could not occur in original Hebrew writings, which have fail-safe criteria - each Hebrew alphabet is also a numeral, and its sum totals have to be tallied in words and verses. 'LO' = a sum of two - its omission would have thrown the math check and red signals of alarm would prompt the writer. This is why such errors are not seen in the scrolls.
This is outrageous. Someone would almost have to be insane to write this, and I'm not sure about the almost.

The word for "NO" is pronounced LO, rhymes with low. The Hebrew letters are Lamed and Aleph. Aleph has a value of one, but Lamed has a value of 30.

Therefore this adds up to 31, not 2.

That detail aside, what math check? That's a total fabrication.
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Old 04-12-2009, 06:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semiopen View Post

This is outrageous. Someone would almost have to be insane to write this, and I'm not sure about the almost.

The word for "NO" is pronounced LO, rhymes with low. The Hebrew letters are Lamed and Aleph. Aleph has a value of one, but Lamed has a value of 30.

Therefore this adds up to 31, not 2.
You are correct, my bad. I only meant to express that the '31' would raise an alarm bell.

Quote:

That detail aside, what math check? That's a total fabrication.
No sir. Numerology ['Gamatria'] comes from the Hebrew, and has always been an impacting factor in hebrew scrollings: one has to be a licensed scroller to make a Hebrew scroll.
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Old 04-12-2009, 07:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamJoseph View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by semiopen View Post

This is outrageous. Someone would almost have to be insane to write this, and I'm not sure about the almost.

The word for "NO" is pronounced LO, rhymes with low. The Hebrew letters are Lamed and Aleph. Aleph has a value of one, but Lamed has a value of 30.

Therefore this adds up to 31, not 2.
You are correct, my bad. I only meant to express that the '31' would raise an alarm bell.

Quote:

That detail aside, what math check? That's a total fabrication.
No sir. Numerology ['Gamatria'] comes from the Hebrew, and has always been an impacting factor in hebrew scrollings: one has to be a licensed scroller to make a Hebrew scroll.
From http://www.hebrewworld.com/Tanach-Plus.html

Quote:
Gematria uses the numerical values of the Hebrew letters to derive insights into the sacred writings, to obtain interpretations of the text, and to illustrate secular matters.
Gematria is also pretty much a crock.

One thing nobody claims it can do is cross check the correctness of a scroll. Your claim is just breathtaking in its delusionality.
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