Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Johnny Skeptic · 02-25-2008, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Micah 5:2 says “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” If Micah had predicted that the messiah would rule a heavenly kingdom instead of an earthly kingdom like Micah misled the Jews to believe, and had predicted that the messiah would heal people, and that the messiah would be crucified, buried, and rise from the dead in three days, and that Pontius Pilate would become the Roman governor of Palestine, and that Herod would become the King of Judea, would more Jews would have accepted Jesus?

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Enough Jews accepted Jesus that Christianity spread throughout the Roman Empire and beyond and continues to exists for over 1967 years.

You did not answer the question. Please do so.

Johnny Skeptic · 02-25-2008, 11:02 AM

Message to arnoldo: In your opinion, if God had wanted to, would he have been able to inspire messianic prophecies that would have convinced more Jews to accept Jesus?

dr lazer blast · 02-25-2008, 12:58 PM

The what if game can be played for anything.

arnoldo · 02-25-2008, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Micah 5:2 says “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” If Micah had predicted that the messiah would rule a heavenly kingdom instead of an earthly kingdom like Micah misled the Jews to believe, and had predicted that the messiah would heal people, and that the messiah would be crucified, buried, and rise from the dead in three days, and that Pontius Pilate would become the Roman governor of Palestine, and that Herod would become the King of Judea, would more Jews would have accepted Jesus?

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Enough Jews accepted Jesus that Christianity spread throughout the Roman Empire and beyond and continues to exists for over 1967 years.

You did not answer the question. Please do so.

Actually if Micah had been written differently to state blah, Pontinus Pilate, Herod, and the rest would have sentenced a messiah type figure to death it would have made people believe it was written after the fact and that the prohecy was bogus. If a fundie came along to a skepie 2000 years ago and said looky here it says in Micah that Pontius Pilate would sentence this dude to death the skeppie would have probably punched the fundie in the face for insulting her intelligence.

Toto · 02-25-2008, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

...
Actually if Micah had been written differently to state blah, Pontinus Pilate, Herod, and the rest would have sentenced a messiah type figure to death it would have made people believe it was written after the fact and that the prohecy was bogus. If a fundie came along to a skepie 2000 years ago and said looky here it says in Micah that Pontius Pilate would sentence this dude to death the skeppie would have probably punched the fundie in the face for insulting her intelligence.

This is a technique I have seen psychics use. They claim that there is no use putting their psychic powers to the test because no one would believe them anyway. This is just a not-so-clever way of diverting attention from the real issue: that they would fail the test.

In this case, Micah was not written with those details. So your little dream scenario is totally irrelevant.

arnoldo · 02-25-2008, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

...
Actually if Micah had been written differently to state blah, Pontinus Pilate, Herod, and the rest would have sentenced a messiah type figure to death it would have made people believe it was written after the fact and that the prohecy was bogus. If a fundie came along to a skepie 2000 years ago and said looky here it says in Micah that Pontius Pilate would sentence this dude to death the skeppie would have probably punched the fundie in the face for insulting her intelligence.

This is a technique I have seen psychics use. They claim that there is no use putting their psychic powers to the test because no one would believe them anyway. This is just a not-so-clever way of diverting attention from the real issue: that they would fail the test.

In this case, Micah was not written with those details. So your little dream scenario is totally irrelevant.

Exactly, and the "what if dream scenario" if Micah was written differently more people would believe is also totally irrelevant. :wave:

Toto · 02-25-2008, 06:53 PM

The what-if scenario might be relevant to the question of what it would actually take to convince a skeptic.

Your idea that skeptics would find some reason to reject any evidence is the irrelevant part.

PS: everyone here has been asked to discontinue the use of the overused waving smilie. This is an official mod request.

Johnny Skeptic · 02-25-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Actually if Micah had been written differently to state blah, Ponti us Pilate, Herod, and the rest would have sentenced a messiah type figure to death it would have made people believe it was written after the fact and that the prophecy was bogus.

On the contrary, in the NIV, Acts 17:10-12 say "As soon as it was night, the brothers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. Many of the Jews believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men."

The Scriptures that the Bereans read were Old Testament Scriptures. The book of Micah is part of the Old Testament. Micah could have made many predictions that would have caused a lot more Jews and non-Jews to become followers of Jesus.

If Jesus had accurately predicted that Titus would destroy the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D., and the names of all of the Roman Emperors that would rule over the next 200 years, and their dates of birth and death, you and I would not be debating whether or not at least one being exists who is able to predict the future.

If a God exists, there are not any doubts whatsoever that he would easily be able to convince everyone in the world that he can predict the future if he wanted to. That reasonably proves that if a God exists, he has never used fulfilled prophecy after the fact to influence anyone.

Johnny Skeptic · 02-25-2008, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

The "what if dream scenario" if Micah was written differently more people would believe is also totally irrelevant.

And I guess that if Ezekiel had predicted that Alexander would defeat Tyre, and had predicted that Titus would destroy the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem that that would have been totally irrelevant.

arnoldo · 02-25-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

The what-if scenario might be relevant to the question of what it would actually take to convince a skeptic.

Your idea that skeptics would find some reason to reject any evidence is the irrelevant part.

PS: everyone here has been asked to discontinue the use of the overused waving smilie. This is an official mod request.

Sorry.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

02-25-2008, 11:02 AM	#52
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	Message to arnoldo: In your opinion, if God had wanted to, would he have been able to inspire messianic prophecies that would have convinced more Jews to accept Jesus?

02-25-2008, 12:58 PM	#53
dr lazer blast Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: charleston sc Posts: 1,622	The what if game can be played for anything.

02-25-2008, 06:53 PM	#57
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	The what-if scenario might be relevant to the question of what it would actually take to convince a skeptic. Your idea that skeptics would find some reason to reject any evidence is the irrelevant part. PS: everyone here has been asked to discontinue the use of the overused waving smilie. This is an official mod request.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.