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Johnny Skeptic · 02-14-2008, 06:35 AM

Micah 5:2 says “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” If Micah had predicted that the messiah would rule a heavenly kingdom instead of an earthly kingdom like Micah misled the Jews to believe, and had predicted that the messiah would heal people, and that the messiah would be crucified, buried, and rise from the dead in three days, and that Pontius Pilate would become the Roman governor of Palestine, and that Herod would become the King of Judea, would more Jews would have accepted Jesus?

arnoldo · 02-14-2008, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Micah 5:2 says “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” If Micah had predicted that the messiah would rule a heavenly kingdom instead of an earthly kingdom like Micah misled the Jews to believe, and had predicted that the messiah would heal people, and that the messiah would be crucified, buried, and rise from the dead in three days, and that Pontius Pilate would become the Roman governor of Palestine, and that Herod would become the King of Judea, would more Jews would have accepted Jesus?

Enough Jews accepted Jesus that Christianity spread throughout the Roman Emprie and beyond and continues to exists for over 1967 years.

Johnny Skeptic · 02-14-2008, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Micah 5:2 says “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” If Micah had predicted that the messiah would rule a heavenly kingdom instead of an earthly kingdom like Micah misled the Jews to believe, and had predicted that the messiah would heal people, and that the messiah would be crucified, buried, and rise from the dead in three days, and that Pontius Pilate would become the Roman governor of Palestine, and that Herod would become the King of Judea, would more Jews would have accepted Jesus?

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Enough Jews accepted Jesus that Christianity spread throughout the Roman Empire and beyond and continues to exists for over 1967 years.

You did not answer my question. Please do so.

Exciter · 02-14-2008, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Micah 5:2 says “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” If Micah had predicted that the messiah would rule a heavenly kingdom instead of an earthly kingdom like Micah misled the Jews to believe, and had predicted that the messiah would heal people, and that the messiah would be crucified, buried, and rise from the dead in three days, and that Pontius Pilate would become the Roman governor of Palestine, and that Herod would become the King of Judea, would more Jews would have accepted Jesus?

No. Jesus wasn't wasn't to be accepted by all the Jews.

Johnny Skeptic · 02-14-2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Micah 5:2 says “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” If Micah had predicted that the messiah would rule a heavenly kingdom instead of an earthly kingdom like Micah misled the Jews to believe, and had predicted that the messiah would heal people, and that the messiah would be crucified, buried, and rise from the dead in three days, and that Pontius Pilate would become the Roman governor of Palestine, and that Herod would become the King of Judea, would more Jews would have accepted Jesus?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exciter

No. Jesus wasn't wasn't to be accepted by all the Jews.

I never said anything about all Jews. You did not answer my question. Please do so.

exmormon · 02-14-2008, 02:23 PM

So you're asking whether a myth (all that about Jesus) would be different if history (what gotten written in Micah) had been different? Are you assuming the myth to be history for argument's sake, or for some other reason? Or are you actually asking about the myth?

Johnny Skeptic · 02-14-2008, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exmormon

So you're asking whether a myth (all that about Jesus) would be different if history (what gotten written in Micah) had been different? Are you assuming the myth to be history for argument's sake, or for some other reason? Or are you actually asking about the myth?

Since Micah could not have predicted what I proposed without the help of a non-human, possibly a God, my question was obviously intended for Christians.

arnoldo · 02-14-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Marshal your troops, O city of troops, [a]
for a siege is laid against us.
They will strike Israel's ruler
on the cheek with a rod.

Yeshua was the King of the Jews who was struck and beaten before he was crucified.

Quote:

2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans [b] of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins [c] are from of old,
from ancient times. [d] "

Yup, Yeshua said "before Abraham was, I AM."

Quote:

3 Therefore Israel will be abandoned
until the time when she who is in labor gives birth
and the rest of his brothers return
to join the Israelites.

Rome destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Quote:

4 He will stand and shepherd his flock
in the strength of the LORD,
in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God.
And they will live securely, for then his greatness
will reach to the ends of the earth.

5 And he will be their peace.

That pretty much sums up the millenium.

Johnny Skeptic · 02-14-2008, 05:31 PM

I am sure that readers have noticed how arnoldo tries to be a bully and manipulate how discussions go, and whose questions get answered.Sugarhitman does the same thing. I made the following post before, and arnoldo conveniently refused to answer my question. Maybe he will this time. When arnoldo asks questions, he wants skeptics to directly answer his questions, but he frequently is not willing to show skeptics the same courtesy that he wants skeptics to show him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Micah 5:2 says “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” If Micah had predicted that the messiah would rule a heavenly kingdom instead of an earthly kingdom like Micah misled the Jews to believe, and had predicted that the messiah would heal people, and that the messiah would be crucified, buried, and rise from the dead in three days, and that Pontius Pilate would become the Roman governor of Palestine, and that Herod would become the King of Judea, would more Jews would have accepted Jesus?

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Enough Jews accepted Jesus that Christianity spread throughout the Roman Empire and beyond and continues to exists for over 1967 years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

You did not answer my question. Please do so.

It is obvious that arnoldo conveniently refused to answer my question because he knows that he would have embarrassed himself if he had claimed that not one single extra Jew would have accepted Jesus if Micah had made the predictions that I mentioned. My question does not have anything whatsoever to do with "enough" Jews. It has to do with "any more Jews." Arnoldo is well aware of that. The undecided crowd is not impressed with arnoldo's evasiveness.

Why doesn't the Bible contain one single indisputable prophecy? Answer, because the God of the Bible does not exist. Would a lot of indisputable prophecies have made the Bible more attractive to skeptics, and have strenghthened the faith of Jews a lot more than it has, such as a prediction that Alexander would defeat Tyre. Answer, yes.

arnoldo · 02-14-2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Why doesn't the Bible contain one single indisputable prophecy? Answer, because the God of the Bible does not exist.

You know the word bible means "book" right. I think you should say the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob doesn't exist or Jesus doesn't exist to make a stronger statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Would a lot of indisputable prophecies have made the Bible more attractive to skeptics, and have strenghthened the faith of Jews a lot more than it has, such as a prediction that Alexander would defeat Tyre. Answer, yes.

I don't think it takes a genius to realize that if the word "Alexander" was put in the bible it would have changed the course of history or people who simply say the prophecy was written after the fact.
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Quote:

A man can no more diminsih God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, "darkness" on the walls of his cell
~ C.S. Lewis.

FYI, Micah 5:2 was written perfectly.

02-14-2008, 06:35 AM	#1
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	What if Micah 5:2 had been written differently? Micah 5:2 says “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” If Micah had predicted that the messiah would rule a heavenly kingdom instead of an earthly kingdom like Micah misled the Jews to believe, and had predicted that the messiah would heal people, and that the messiah would be crucified, buried, and rise from the dead in three days, and that Pontius Pilate would become the Roman governor of Palestine, and that Herod would become the King of Judea, would more Jews would have accepted Jesus?

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02-14-2008, 02:23 PM	#6
exmormon Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 340	So you're asking whether a myth (all that about Jesus) would be different if history (what gotten written in Micah) had been different? Are you assuming the myth to be history for argument's sake, or for some other reason? Or are you actually asking about the myth?

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