Huon

JtB and Jesus on the same level of importance.
JtB plays a minor part, Jesus could have washed his hands before praying.
JtB clearly on a lower level.
No mention of the baptism of Jesus


It seems that the importance of John the Baptist decreases regularly. IMHO, the disciples of JtB had some importance for gMark, less for gLuke, almost nothing for gMatt, and had disappeared for gJohn.

steve_bnk

From a literary perspective jtb is a major protagonist. He starts the ball rolling. He invokes a prophesy and behold it is fulfilled by THE ONE, to invoke the Matrix.

outhouse

Do you expect a secondary player to outshine the main character?


They have to build their main teacher as the greatest teacher.

avi

Hi Huon,

Well, thank you for those several verses from Matthew, however, I think that there are two other verses of importance, with respect to John the Baptist, the two that precede yours:
Matthew 3:11-12, which are present in Justin Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho chapter 49:
It is interesting that Justin Martyr does not cite Matthew here, almost as though Matthew was unknown, at that time....

Tenorikuma

Later gospels were less and less comfortable portraying Jesus' humanness, once the basic fact of his earthly existence had been established.

aa5874

Justin Martyr's "Memoirs of the Apostles" appears to be an early version of the "Diatessaron" or a similar source.

The 'Memoirs of the Apostles' contains passages that are found Only in gMark, gMatthew, gLuke and gJohn.

And further it is claimed that Tatian, a student of Justin, was is possession of a 'Diatessaron'.

Church History 4. Now, in the Synoptics, the Baptism of John was extremely significant. John Baptised for the Remission of Sins.

John, NOT Jesus, Offered Salavation to the Jews by Baptism and even AFTER Jesus himself was supposedly Baptised.

In the earliest stories of Jesus, there was no need for Jesus to Sacrifice himself for Remission of Sins because John the Baptist was ALREADY providing atonement by Baptism.

It was the LATER author of gJohn who completely changed the story of John the Baptist and Jesus and nowhere claimed John Baptised for Remission of Sins and then stated Jesus was Sacrificied for the Universal Salvation of the World.

Sinaiticus gMark 1Mark 1:4 KJVLuke 3:3 KJVMatthew 3:11 KJV Examine gJohn--The Baptism by John has very little significance and there is nothing about Repentance or the Remission of Sins associated with John's Baptism in gJohn.

Remission of Sins is ONLY provided by the Sacrifice of Jesus the Lamb of God in gJohn.

John 1:26 KJV
John 1:29 KJV
John 3:16 KJV

wordy

There still exists a few believers in JtB
but if these families really have family
heritage back to the time of JtB I don't know.

One can wonder why they want to be such odd
faith now when almost nobody support their faith?

I trust that the Bible text wants to relate to them
for the same reason it mention the Samaritans in
John 4 them want to say Jesus is King over all people.

So they include a lot of such that lived around them.

do we know if jtB really existed or is he myth too?

tanya

:thumbs:

aa5874

The earlier Gospels that claimed Jesus was on earth also claimed he was the Son of a Ghost. The Father of Jesus was ESTABLISHED as a Holy Ghost.

In gMatthew and gLuke it was ESTABLISHED that John baptised the Son of a Ghost and in gMark, after Jesus was Baptised by John it was ESTABLISHED that he used to walk on water in the night.

See Matthew 1, Luke 1 and Mark 6.

Chili

You have everything wrong by mixing up forgiveness with remission and atonement (at-one-ment).

Forgiveness is done to clean the slate that we call TOK and so validates our sin nature in the TOL that it may increase there to become the nagative stand in the final rout that we may encounter later in life when the grand inquisition is made to deliver us from that evil, and only the evil that we know in a world of our own, which then is totally irrelevant because it is our sin nature itself that we are after.

According to your reading you would be dragging Buddhist to heaven and Muslim even with your protestant eyes.

Jesus is missing in John so it may happen to us as Lamb of God belonging to a particular flock to isolate heaven as religion specific, and the 'Him' here is not Jesus but Christ so that we may become Jesus in our own right and take the old one down from the cross and place ourselves upon it, and do just as he did way back then.

Note here that it was his favorite [bosom buddy] John who he introduced as the lamb of God now fully God from the cross whereupon he died to the sins of his world and his world only, so that we could do it to our own world in the manner she showed us, or at least what they wrote about so that we can identify with it when our day comes to do the same.

And Mark's baptism only leads to the remisison of sins, and so is into the flock.