Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 02-10-2004, 10:59 AM

Robert Price started out in Campus Crusade for Christ and learned his apologetics there. His book is a long refutation of the historicist case that Layman / Bede / Nomad have made here for a historical basis for the gospels and Christianity.

Cretinist · 02-10-2004, 11:14 AM

You won't beat me to a review, Toto! I've only got 20 pages or so left.

Victory will be mine!

cloudyphiz · 02-11-2004, 07:55 AM

Sounded pretty interesting, so I ordered it. Unfortunately none of the book stores in Rochester had it so I'll have to wait for UPS to bring it to me from Amazon.

Anybody who's already finished reading it have any other thoughts?
(in other words, *bump*)

-gary

Cretinist · 02-11-2004, 08:29 AM

It's like a new and improved version of Randal Helm's Gospel Fictions. Price totally demolishes the idea that there is any historical material in the Gospels.

Here is the last paragraph from the second to last chapter:

Quote:

Did Jesus rise from the dead? The Gospels give us no reason to think so. Every single story bears the marks of fiction, with earlier versions ruling out later ones, with extrabiblical parallels providing abundant nonhistorical analogies, while current experience provides no historical parallel. The Gospels certainly do not put us in touch with the faith (whatever it may have been) of the earliest Christians. They do not tell us whether the resurrection of Jesus was even part of the first Christian faith(s). Everywhere we have looked, we have found naught but legend and myth, fiction and redaction. What we have found is a kind of empty tomb. What we can never tell is whether anyone was ever buried there.

Roland · 02-17-2004, 06:17 PM

I just started reading this book and already I have learned so much from it. I never knew before, for instance, that Irenaeus, in his "Against Heresies," claims that all the presbyters of Asia believed, along with him, that Jesus died around the age of 50 and that this occurred most likely under the reign of Claudius, not when Pilate was around!

So much for the theory that these early church fathers had much access to the gospels we have today.

Great stuff.

Buy this book. You won't be disappointed.

Vorkosigan · 02-17-2004, 06:38 PM

Mine just arrived yesterday. I will read it tonight. can't wait!

Doctor X · 02-17-2004, 06:42 PM

Damn . . . yet another book. . . .

--J.D.

Malachi151 · 02-17-2004, 06:44 PM

I won't buy the book because I don't care about the Bible, but what is interesting to note is that books of this nature have been around for 200 years, and still look how powerful Christianity is and look at the fact that even most non-religous people are unaware of the fact that the gospels have been soundly refuted for 200 years.

The damage these books do is not great, the believers still believe.

Attacking the Bible, while amuzing, and not a bad thing to do, is no substitute for postive advancement of materialist philosophy and science.

Sounds like a good book though, thanks for the reviews.

cloudyphiz · 02-18-2004, 01:10 PM

I'm about 1/3rd of the way through the book right now, and I'm really enjoying it. Lots of things in the gospels that have long puzzled me are suddenly making complete sense. What's making less and less sense is how rational people can take this stuff seriously and base their lives on it.

I can definitely see it ratcheting up the HJ debate in a big, big way.
Good luck with this one, apologists.

-Gary

Toto · 02-18-2004, 01:49 PM

If you ever have a chance to hear Robert Price lecture or debate, go see him. He is a performance artist and an orator, and getting a taste of his style will add to your understanding of the style of the book - in particular the frequent humorous asides, which in a lecture he would adopt a different voice for.

I am only afraid that the apologists are going to take his many references to popular culture (including the title) as an excuse to just dismiss the book. They will also note that in a very few places he refers to (but does not rely on) some marginal work - such as Allegro's theories.

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02-10-2004, 10:59 AM	#11
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Robert Price started out in Campus Crusade for Christ and learned his apologetics there. His book is a long refutation of the historicist case that Layman / Bede / Nomad have made here for a historical basis for the gospels and Christianity.

02-10-2004, 11:14 AM	#12
Cretinist Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hell Posts: 399	You won't beat me to a review, Toto! I've only got 20 pages or so left. Victory will be mine!

02-11-2004, 07:55 AM	#13
cloudyphiz Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: rochester, ny, usa Posts: 658	Sounded pretty interesting, so I ordered it. Unfortunately none of the book stores in Rochester had it so I'll have to wait for UPS to bring it to me from Amazon. Anybody who's already finished reading it have any other thoughts? (in other words, bump) -gary

02-17-2004, 06:17 PM	#15
Roland Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: California Posts: 748	I just started reading this book and already I have learned so much from it. I never knew before, for instance, that Irenaeus, in his "Against Heresies," claims that all the presbyters of Asia believed, along with him, that Jesus died around the age of 50 and that this occurred most likely under the reign of Claudius, not when Pilate was around! So much for the theory that these early church fathers had much access to the gospels we have today. Great stuff. Buy this book. You won't be disappointed.

02-17-2004, 06:38 PM	#16
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Mine just arrived yesterday. I will read it tonight. can't wait!

02-17-2004, 06:42 PM	#17
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	Damn . . . yet another book. . . . --J.D.

02-17-2004, 06:44 PM	#18
Malachi151 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 8,674	I won't buy the book because I don't care about the Bible, but what is interesting to note is that books of this nature have been around for 200 years, and still look how powerful Christianity is and look at the fact that even most non-religous people are unaware of the fact that the gospels have been soundly refuted for 200 years. The damage these books do is not great, the believers still believe. Attacking the Bible, while amuzing, and not a bad thing to do, is no substitute for postive advancement of materialist philosophy and science. Sounds like a good book though, thanks for the reviews.

02-18-2004, 01:10 PM	#19
cloudyphiz Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: rochester, ny, usa Posts: 658	I'm about 1/3rd of the way through the book right now, and I'm really enjoying it. Lots of things in the gospels that have long puzzled me are suddenly making complete sense. What's making less and less sense is how rational people can take this stuff seriously and base their lives on it. I can definitely see it ratcheting up the HJ debate in a big, big way. Good luck with this one, apologists. -Gary

02-18-2004, 01:49 PM	#20
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	If you ever have a chance to hear Robert Price lecture or debate, go see him. He is a performance artist and an orator, and getting a taste of his style will add to your understanding of the style of the book - in particular the frequent humorous asides, which in a lecture he would adopt a different voice for. I am only afraid that the apologists are going to take his many references to popular culture (including the title) as an excuse to just dismiss the book. They will also note that in a very few places he refers to (but does not rely on) some marginal work - such as Allegro's theories.

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