Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 01-21-2004, 01:15 PM

Incredible Shrinking Son of Man: How Reliable Is the Gospel Tradition? by Robert Price, published by Prometheus Books.

Quote:

Robert M. Price presents THE INCREDIBLE SHRINKING SON OF MAN, a balanced yet radically pessimistic new assessment of gospel historicity. While indebted to two centuries of scholarship, Price's latest book charts new territory, illustrating the virtual lack of historical information in the New Testament's Jesus stories. After an excellent introduction to the historical-critical method in language tailored to nonspecialists, Price analyzes sections of the Gospels, separating fact from fiction in all episodes of Jesus' life. Price examines both familiar parables and Jesus' teachings for authenticity, carefully studying miracle stories and drawing surprising conclusions. In addition, Price critically explores whether Jesus preached his Messiahship or predicted his own death as a means to save souls.

Written for a general audience in a refreshing and accessible style, Price's highly informative discussion will interest anyone who has wondered about the origins of Christianity.

CX · 01-21-2004, 01:56 PM

Another book for my reading list.

I already have:

Lost Christianities by Bart Ehrman
Lost Scriptures by Bart Ehrman
Who Were the Ancient Israelites and Where Did They Come From? by William Dever
Excavating Jesus by John Dominic Crossan

just sitting on my desk waiting to be read.

Dean Anderson · 01-23-2004, 01:43 AM

From amazon.co.uk's listing of the book...

Quote:

Customers who bought books by Robert M. Price also bought books by these authors:

H.P. Lovecraft
Stephen Mark Rainey
Algernon Blackwood
Arthur Machen
Aleister Crowley

So... it looks like he's in good company on people's bookshelves then.

01-23-2004, 06:22 AM

Has Price changed his position on the historicity of Jesus? What is he now?

Kevin

Toto · 01-23-2004, 10:36 AM

Price is a radical agnostic. He still thinks that the Jesus of history cannot be recovered.

Vorkosigan · 01-24-2004, 07:14 AM

Maybe we could each buy one chapter and then copy them to each other.....maybe I'll get my library to put it on the e-library...

Cretinist · 01-26-2004, 08:20 PM

I already bought it, I'll give a brief review of it to you guys when I'm done with it. Maybe if you're nice to me I'll type out a few chapters.

Cretinist · 01-31-2004, 10:45 AM

I'm just getting into it, but wow, this is a great book! I'm finding it much more entertaining than Deconstructing Jesus.

Talking about miracles and the common claim that NT critics reject the miracles simple because they're committed to philosophical naturalism, Price makes this interesting observation:

Quote:

And the sword cuts both ways. If we cannot render "probable" a story of a man walking on water because we have no analogies in contemporary experiences for it (and that's all it would take, even if we didn't understand how it were possible), we can consider a story of an exorcism or a faith healing likely enough. Scenes like those in the Gospels occur today. You can go out and with little difficulty find some healing rally or deliverance meeting. You can easily find people speaking in tongues, just as they did in Corinth. You may prefer a natural or a supernatural explanation of what you are seeing, but it will occur to you, "This is what it must have been like in New Testament times!" Even the supposedly archskeptical Bultmann forthrightly declared that the historical Jesus must have been a worker of what he and his contemporaries considered miracles. But you will search in vain for a Pentecostal meeting where the rotting dead are revived (though we know of numerous cases where gagging followers kept macabre bedside vigils over the increasingly ripe corpses of their gurus who had promised to rise again), [and] where people walk on water (though we know how Jim Jones faked it).

There is a footnote here about those "numerous cases", and I couldn't help but recall one of Vorkosigan's great posts (I wish the search function wasn't down, but most of you will probably know which one I'm thinking of). The footnote reads:

Quote:

Jack Gratus, The False Messiahs (New York: Taplinger, 1975), gives a number of instances. Jemima Wilkinson, "the Public Universal Friend," told her followers not to bury here corpse when she died, because she would shortly rise again. They hid her body when the time came, in 1820, and they waited, but in vain (p. 162). In 1823, Swiss Messiah Margaret Peter and her sister Elizabeth insisted that their followers beat them to death without qualm, since they would rise again. Visitors were invited to witness the miracle of resurrection, but it didn't happen (pp.167-170). Shortly before Joanna Southcott died in 1814, one disciple professed his faith that she would rise again. She herself ordered that her body be kept warm for four days with hot water bottles, then opened up, and a living, virginally conceived messianic child ("Shiloh") would be found. The reeking body did not rise, and no fetus was found, dead or alive (pp. 176-177). Sir William Courtenay, "the peasants' Messiah" and reincarnation of Jesus Christ, was killed in a hail of British army bullets, and his corpse was laid out for viewing. Multitudes crowded the parlor, expecting him to rise from the dead and hoping to witness it, but without success. One woman was even found trying to pour water between his inert lips (p. 192).

Toto · 02-10-2004, 12:16 AM

I'm about a third of the way through this book. The idea that there is any history in the New Testament just crumbles before your eyes.

CX · 02-10-2004, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto
I'm about a third of the way through this book. The idea that there is any history in the New Testament just crumbles before your eyes.

Of course that presumes that one ever thought there WAS any history in the NT.

01-21-2004, 01:56 PM	#2
CX Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portlandish Posts: 2,829	That's just great... Another book for my reading list. I already have: Lost Christianities by Bart Ehrman Lost Scriptures by Bart Ehrman Who Were the Ancient Israelites and Where Did They Come From? by William Dever Excavating Jesus by John Dominic Crossan just sitting on my desk waiting to be read.

01-23-2004, 06:22 AM	#4
TheDiddleyMan Guest Posts: n/a	whoa.... Has Price changed his position on the historicity of Jesus? What is he now? Kevin

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01-23-2004, 10:36 AM	#5
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Price is a radical agnostic. He still thinks that the Jesus of history cannot be recovered.

01-24-2004, 07:14 AM	#6
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Maybe we could each buy one chapter and then copy them to each other.....maybe I'll get my library to put it on the e-library...

01-26-2004, 08:20 PM	#7
Cretinist Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hell Posts: 399	I already bought it, I'll give a brief review of it to you guys when I'm done with it. Maybe if you're nice to me I'll type out a few chapters.

02-10-2004, 12:16 AM	#9
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I'm about a third of the way through this book. The idea that there is any history in the New Testament just crumbles before your eyes.

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