Freethought & Rationalism Archive

charmeyn · 11-25-2005, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPD

How wrong you are. Stick around and you will see that this is a minor ingredient in the whole mix. Your tarring an entire site with its diverse views with one large brush demonstrates astonishing ignorance, as do those who accept what the Bible/Quran says without question. Search hard enough and you can find predictions of events which have come to pass in the most obscure works. You don't have to look very hard to find errors in the Bible/Quran. If you claim that there are none then you are not familiar enough with either text to take part in a rational and intelligent discussion. If you claim that it all comes down to context and interpretation then anything can be explained in a manner which claims the exact opposite of what a verse or a passage appears to state.

Show me an "obscure works" or author that pre-dates the Bible and it's OT/NT character's and author's, or that of God for that matter? Or are you referring to such person's as Nostradamus, or possibly Mohammed(Founder of the Islamic faith,who BTW came 600-700 years after the crucifixtion of Christ) And by the way , yes I am aware of Biblical error, but I place the blame on mankinds translation of the "Old Hebrew" which died out centuries ago before the Bible was ever written in today's english language, you can't expect me to not know that or consider the fact that the translator's of the Bible themselves were possably ignorant of the "Old hebrew" language nor would I have expected them to even know it, that there would be error in translation. But this does not discredit the very basic message that the Bible contains from what they could translate.

Amaleq13 · 11-25-2005, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmeyn

Edited to add: Oh and BTW, there are plenty of scientists and Historians who have proven the Bible to be authentic and accurate...

This claim is entirely appropriate for the forum and I encourage you to start a new thread in which you support the assertion you have made. Actually, it might be better if you chose one specific claim from the Bible that you believed has been "proven authentic" by "scientists and Historians" and then procede to present the evidence and conclusions offered by them.

You might want to run a search on prior discussions of the subject here, however, to see if what you intend to offer has already been rebutted.

John A. Broussard · 11-25-2005, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmeyn

Edited to add: Oh and BTW, there are plenty of scientists and Historians who have proven the Bible to be authentic and accurate, so I guess it's a matter of which scientist we choose to side with: that of the ones the Athiest tend to agree with (and suites their purpose of course) and appose the authenticity of the Bible, or that of the Scientists which Give the Bible it's due credit

I wonder if you would be so kind as to tell me how the scientists and historians who have proved the bible to be accurate explain what happened on this day:

JOSHUA10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

I look forward to your answer.

Jack the Bodiless · 11-25-2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmeyn

Show me an "obscure works" or author that pre-dates the Bible and it's OT/NT character's and author's, or that of God for that matter? Or are you referring to such person's as Nostradamus, or possibly Mohammed(Founder of the Islamic faith,who BTW came 600-700 years after the crucifixtion of Christ)

Are you even aware that there ARE religions that are older than your God?

Judaism is only a few centuries older than Christianity, being largely a product of the Babylonian exile. Sure, there are parts that are older: but would you even recognize a religion in which your YHWH is part of a polytheistic pantheon, only one of the 70 sons of El, the chief God of Isra-EL? And we could go back further, into Babylonian and Sumerian myth (Adapa and the "food of the gods", Ut-Napishtim and the Great Flood - does any of this sound familiar?)

And nobody really knows how old Hinduism is, and Buddhism branched off when the Jews were still trying to figure out how many gods there were. And then there's the Egyptian pantheon...

You could learn a great deal if you stick around (and I hope you do). But you need to be ready to open your mind.

charmeyn · 11-25-2005, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John A. Broussard

I wonder if you would be so kind as to tell me how the scientists and historians who have proved the bible to be accurate explain what happened on this day:

JOSHUA10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

I look forward to your answer.

have you never wittnessed the moon on a daylit sky whilst the sun is still on the opposite horizon before it sets, I know I have plenty of times, especially in the summer time although the moon would look quite small and higher up in the sky in comparison to the sun,this is not a rare occurance and could very well be what they were describing in the Bible on that particular day in question, given that the area in which they lived would not have vast moutains for which to obscure this event. And yes it does look like the sun is standing still during this moment.

Bold · 11-25-2005, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmeyn

Well I assume then if you people believe everything science claims, then that would include that mankind evolved from apes, so if apes evolved into humans as we are today, then why is it that apes still exist on this great and awesome earth.

This argument is so bad that even www.answersingenesis.org advises not to use it. http://www.answersingenesis.org/home...q/dont_use.asp

about 40% of the way down the page.

John A. Broussard · 11-25-2005, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmeyn

have you never wittnessed the moon on a daylit sky whilst the sun is still on the opposite horizon before it sets, I know I have plenty of times, especially in the summer time although the moon would look quite small and higher up in the sky in comparison to the sun,this is not a rare occurance and could very well be what they were describing in the Bible on that particular day in question, given that the area in which they lived would not have vast moutains for which to obscure this event. And yes it does look like the sun is standing still during this moment.

So you are saying the bible is in error. It reports that the sun stood still when in fact it did not stand still but merely appeared to stand still.

Can we skip to christ's ascenscion into heaven next?

Can we assume that, as in the case of the sun fable, the bible writers are simply not reporting a fact, but are erroneously reporting what appears to be Christ rising into the sky?

I look forward to your answer.

charmeyn · 11-25-2005, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack the Bodiless

Are you even aware that there ARE religions that are older than your God?

Judaism is only a few centuries older than Christianity, being largely a product of the Babylonian exile. Sure, there are parts that are older: but would you even recognize a religion in which your YHWH is part of a polytheistic pantheon, only one of the 70 sons of El, the chief God of Isra-EL? And we could go back further, into Babylonian and Sumerian myth (Adapa and the "food of the gods", Ut-Napishtim and the Great Flood - does any of this sound familiar?)

And nobody really knows how old Hinduism is, and Buddhism branched off when the Jews were still trying to figure out how many gods there were. And then there's the Egyptian pantheon...

You could learn a great deal if you stick around (and I hope you do). But you need to be ready to open your mind.

Yes, I am quite aware that there were other so called religions and Gods that mankind were worshipping, but more importantly so was God ;and this was made quite clear he was aware of this when he gave Moses the Law, one of which was not to worship any other Gods:Exodus Ch 20 v. 3 , nor to make images or idols of them v.4, nor bow down to these images v.5 , and if you know in the beginning of the first part of Ch.20 it says God brought his people out of bondage from the Egyptians, who themsleves worshiped countless Gods of which they made many into Idols. Babylon was also one of those who's people worshipped Idols, one being Baal.

Vicki · 11-25-2005, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmeyn

Yes, I am quite aware that there were other so called religions and Gods that mankind were worshipping, but more importantly so was God ;and this was made quite clear he was aware of this when he gave Moses the Law, one of which was not to worship any other Gods:Exodus Ch 20 v. 3 , nor to make images or idols of them v.4, nor bow down to these images v.5 , and if you know in the beginning of the first part of Ch.20 it says God brought his people out of bondage from the Egyptians, who themsleves worshiped countless Gods of which they made many into Idols. Babylon was also one of those who's people worshipped Idols, one being Baal.

Are you saying then, that you believe there are other gods (as the Bible indicates)?

Peter Watts · 11-25-2005, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebonmuse

That's an interesting point. However, if it's homosexuality that was the specific sin, why would Lot offer his daughters to them? A group of homosexual rapists, if that's what they were, would not have been interested in women. Perhaps Lot should have offered himself to the mob instead?

It's possible these guys swung both ways. Ever thought of that?

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