Chris Weimer

Christians claim that a sacrifice was needed in order to cleanse people of their sins, thus creating a purpose for Jesus' death. However, if we browse into Proverbs:

Proverbs 21 "2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but Yahweh pondereth the hearts. 3 To do justice and judgement is more acceptable to Yahweh than sacrifice."

Clearly the author of Proverbs indicates here that sacrifice wasn't necessarily needed, that by only doing good things and having a good heart is will gain favor with the Lord, but even those who sacrifice (or the modern equivalency thereof) and still have a "bad heart" will not have this favor, or has less.

Does this mean that there's a chance for atheists to go to heaven as long as we do good?

Clivedurdle

Universalism argues we all get there in any case, but earlier threads strongly argued we would be bored silly worshipping god for all eternity before the crystal sea!

sharon45

Yes, many passages speak about the need for having reverence and love for god as being much more in demand than sacrifice. Besides, the blood sacrifice was only used for unintentional sins and that was replaced by prayer when there isn't a Temple established.

John A. Broussard

Somehwere in my early indoctrination into Christianity I was told (not once, but many times) that the rules of the OT don't apply to modern day Christians because god had them back then because of "the hardness of peoples' hearts." I didn't know what that meant then, and I sure don't know now, but that notion could augur well for the main thrust of this thread.

Even atheists may go to heaven, even if they don't follow all the rules--providing of course that their hearts aren't hard. I'm sure they will find great pleasure in singing the praises of a divinity they didn't believe in--for all of eternity.

Bookman

Yeah, let's hope someone can slip in a deck of cards or something.

S.C.Carlson

This discussion about heaven reminds me of Letter II from Mark Twain's Letters from Earth.

Chris Weimer

I wonder if he'll allow you to be reincarnated, or opt for some sort of limbo...as long as there is a library of course.

sharon45

That is the christian's problem, one of which they took out their frustrations on everyone else.

While the OT is far from a perfect book even after some corruption, there still remains inside a strong consistency that truly supports its main cause and course. It is well planned out with highly executed defenses. Now the NT in comparison, lumbers in and tries but sorely fails to take it as its own.

Wallener

According to Judaism, yes, absolutely.

mastermind3001

Here's what "the rules of the OT don't apply to modern day Christians because god had them back then because of the hardness of peoples' hearts" means.

God had selected his chosen nation, and because He hates sin, He gave them a bunch of rules to follow so they could live free of sin and get into His kingdom. But the Jews were ridiculously stubborn. That's what the "hardness of people's hearts" refers to. They were a very stubborn nation. The only way to get into the Kingdom of God was to follow all those laws, but as we know, the Hebrews weren't too inclined to do that. So at one point God said, "You know, this ain't working. They're just too stubborn. There's got to be another way." So God sent His son to earth who was to be the first and last person to live his life not breaking a single commandment. He was then to die on a cross, taking everybody's sins with him, if they believed that he was taking their sins with him. At that point, all people had to do was accept him as their savior, and they no longer needed to follow the laws of the old testament to get into God's kingdom. All that became required of them is to believe that Jesus has freed them of their sins and to live in a way of life that reflects that belief. That's pretty much the core of the Christian belief.

I just want to answer this from a Christian perspective. In order to get into heaven you need to be cleansed from all your sins. And doing good deeds will not accomplish that goal. The only way in is to believe that Jesus has been the scapegoat for your sins, which now cleanses you of your sins and lets you into heaven. And, like stated above, to keep the status of 'saved' you need to live in a way that reflects your faith.