Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Johnny Skeptic · 03-18-2010, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesABrown

Exactly what would have happened if God had inspired Biblical writers to write that the Earth was a sphere?

You have given me a somewhat different idea. Message to archaeologist: If God had intended to claim that the earth is flat, how would the texts be different than they are now?

James Brown · 03-18-2010, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesABrown

Exactly what would have happened if God had inspired Biblical writers to write that the Earth was a sphere?

You have given me a somewhat different idea. Message to archaeologist: If God had intended to claim that the earth is flat, how would the texts be different than they are now?

Corollary question: If the earth actually was flat, what language would God have used to describe that?

Johnny Skeptic · 03-18-2010, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesABrown

Corollary question: If the earth actually was flat, what language would God have used to describe that?

Apparently, exactly what we have in the Bible.

John Kesler · 03-18-2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archaeologist

You know as well as I do that all people talk about the sun rising or setting, eventhough it doe snot do so.

Such language is an obvious holdover from days when the sun was thought to actually move. The Bible, however, shows no knowledge of a heliocentric universe, and the prevailing view when the Bible was written was a geocentric one. Not only that, but Joshua 10 indicates the belief that the sun moves:

Quote:

Joshua 10:12-14
12 On the day when Yahweh gave the Amorites over to the Israelites, Joshua spoke to Yahweh; and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand still at Gibeon, and Moon, in the valley of Aijalon." 13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped,until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stopped in midheaven, and did not hurry to set for about a whole day. 14There has been no day like it before or since, when Yahweh heeded a human voice; for Yahweh fought for Israel.

Commenting on this incident, Ben Sira penned the following in chapter 46:

Quote:

Sirach 46:1-4
46 Joshua son of Nun was mighty in war, and was the successor of Moses in the prophetic office. He became, as his name implies, a great savior of God's elect, to take vengeance on the enemies that rose against them, so that he might give Israel its inheritance. 2 How glorious he was when he lifted his hands and brandished his sword against the cities! 3 Who before him ever stood so firm? For he waged the wars of the Lord. 4 Was it not through him that the sun stood still and one day became as long as two?

Also, see this post, in which I quote from the Babylonian Talmud and Louis Ginzberg's The Legends of the Jews, both of which demonstrate that Joshua 10 was interpreted as a literal stopping of the sun.

semiopen · 03-18-2010, 01:58 PM

Haredi Jews, even today, claim that the earth does not move around the sun.

They wouldn't make this claim unless the bible was clear in this regard.

There is no question that the bible describes an immovable earth.

archaeologist · 03-18-2010, 02:07 PM

Quote:

They wouldn't make this claim unless the bible was clear in this regard.

Quote:

Such language is an obvious holdover from days when the sun was thought to actually move. The Bible, however, shows no knowledge of a heliocentric universe, and the prevailing view when the Bible was written was a geocentric one. Not only that, but Joshua 10 indicates the belief that the sun moves:

That is just wrong and a weak attempt to maintain the argument that the Bible teaches the world is flat. sorry but God canuse the language He wants, metaphors and examples andit is not teaching what you say.

Quote:

Also, see this post, in which I quote from the Babylonian Talmud and Louis Ginzberg's The Legends of the Jews, both of which demonstrate that Joshua 10 was interpreted as a literal stopping of the sun.

So? They spoke as they viewed it just like you get up before dawn and say ' i hope the sun rises soon' or 'when will the sun rise'. Your double standard is clear.

The responses given by you are the reason why i have stopped providing you with much. For rational, open minded people, you certainly are closed minded and irrational.

If you do not like Christianity and the Bible so much--why do you spend your time discussing it (falsely of course)? if ti was a false as you say, then it is no threat to you and you should not give it a moment of your time. Yet you spend 24/7 attackingit and those who believe in it--doesn't that tell you something?

it tells me that 1. the Bible is true; <edited>

Johnny Skeptic · 03-18-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archaeologist

If you do not like Christianity and the Bible so much?Why do you spend your time discussing it?

Because many dictatorial, tyrannical conservative Christians try to legistlate the Bible. How would you like it if Muslims were to become the majority in the U.S. and tried to legislate the Koran?

Johnny Skeptic · 03-18-2010, 02:14 PM

Message to archaeologist: If God had intended to claim that the earth is flat, how would the texts be different than they are now?

Job 37:18 says "Can you beat out (raqa) the vault of the skies, as he does, hard as a mirror of cast metal." If that verse indicates that the earth is a sphere, how might it read if the earth was flat?

How can you beat out a sphere? You can't, but you can beat out something flat.

James Brown · 03-18-2010, 02:18 PM

Corollary question: What language would Satan have used regarding the shape of the earth if he wrote the Bible?

James Brown · 03-18-2010, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archaeologist

Quote:

They wouldn't make this claim unless the bible was clear in this regard.

Very insulting. I believe you owe semiopen an apology.

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03-18-2010, 01:58 PM	#25
semiopen Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Hillsborough, NJ Posts: 3,551	Haredi Jews, even today, claim that the earth does not move around the sun. They wouldn't make this claim unless the bible was clear in this regard. There is no question that the bible describes an immovable earth.

03-18-2010, 02:14 PM	#28
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	Message to archaeologist: If God had intended to claim that the earth is flat, how would the texts be different than they are now? Job 37:18 says "Can you beat out (raqa) the vault of the skies, as he does, hard as a mirror of cast metal." If that verse indicates that the earth is a sphere, how might it read if the earth was flat? How can you beat out a sphere? You can't, but you can beat out something flat.

03-18-2010, 02:18 PM	#29
James Brown Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Texas, U.S. Posts: 5,844	Corollary question: What language would Satan have used regarding the shape of the earth if he wrote the Bible?

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