Freethought & Rationalism Archive

rostau · 12-09-2004, 10:24 PM

Why do people assume that all the books in the Library of Alexandria had intelligent ideas in them? There's a tendency to mythologize things that are irrevocably lost, but the chances are that at least 90% of texts now lost to us contained superstitious mumbo-jumbo or trivial crap.

lenrek · 12-09-2004, 11:49 PM

I heard of story where libraries being torched by Christian missionaries when they were spreading their faith in Central America (long time ago). Is this true? Were there libraries left behind by the Mesoamerica civilisations that were burnt?

andrewcriddle · 12-10-2004, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lenrek

I heard of story where libraries being torched by Christian missionaries when they were spreading their faith in Central America (long time ago). Is this true? Were there libraries left behind by the Mesoamerica civilisations that were burnt?

In the 16th century the Spanish Bishop Diego de Landa destroyed large quantities of Mayan books.

He was so thorough that investigation of ancient Mayan civilisation continues to be handicapped by the absence of the records he destroyed.

Andrew Criddle

lenrek · 12-10-2004, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

In the 16th century the Spanish Bishop Diego de Landa destroyed large quantities of Mayan books.

He was so thorough that investigation of ancient Mayan civilisation continues to be handicapped by the absence of the records he destroyed...

How sad...

Let me guess, the reason he did this because he believe these were words of devil? :banghead:

premjan · 12-11-2004, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lenrek

How sad...

Let me guess, the reason he did this because he believe these were words of devil? :banghead:

He had his head up his ass, that was the reason.

Toto · 12-11-2004, 12:53 AM

lenrek is correct.

Bishop Diego de Landa

Quote:

Almost all of what is known about Mayan writing is from three books. The rest were destroyed by the Spanish, and Bishop Diego de Landa, in particular. He felt that the books were inspired by the devil. . . . . In July of 1562, de Landa burned five thousand idols and 27 hieroglyphic rolls at Mani in the Yucatan. This was not the only occasion that de Landa destroyed books; he is the main reason that so few examples of Mayan hieroglyphs exist today. Bishop Diego de Landa also tortured and killed many Mayans. There are records of burning people alive, hanging them from trees, mutilation and drownings. Landa and others believed that the Spanish were so small in number that they had to use these tactics to scare the local population in order to achieve conquest.

Paul Tobin on book burning

Quote:

After the conquest, the Christian bishop of Yucatan, Diego de Landa, ordered the destruction of all extant Mayan codices in 1562. The bishop was convinced of the rightness of his actions, as we can see from what he wrote: "We found a large number of books ... and they contained nothing in which there was not to be seen superstition and lies of the devil, so we burned them all ..."

epepke · 12-11-2004, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hum

I read recently (though I have no idea where !) a list of ancient libraries and the works which are believed to have been destroyed at the hands of Christians.

As others have noted, you're probably thinking of the Royal Library at Alexandria. The loss was indeed staggering.

Carl Sagan popularized the idea that it was destroyed by Christians in his series Cosmos. This comes from Gibbon's The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.

Actual historians, however, aren't at all certian. There seem to be three main candidates:

1) Julius Caesar, a pre-Christian Roman (circa 40 CE)
2) Theophilus, a Christian (circa 400 CE)
3) Caliph Omar, a Muslim (circa 650 CE)

Sagan also combined the burning with the murder of Hypatia and conflated Theophilus with Constantine. This would seem a bit strange, as Theophilus died before Hypatia. And so, if Hypatia worked at the library, it must have been at a library that had already burned down. Which is probably not an insurmountable problem for someone who didn't mind having been killed before she was born.

It seems to me that, if any of the stories are even remotely true, then the most recent one has to be the best, because how are you going to burn down a library that has already been burned down? It's also possible that the library suffered a series of destructive events over the years and that "the burning of the library at Alexandria" is a condensed myth, somewhat like how the Biblical Flood may be a composite myth of several regional floods.

Here's a good summary: http://www.ehistory.com/world/articl...View.cfm?AID=9

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12-09-2004, 10:24 PM	#11
rostau Banned Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: The People's Collective of Azania Posts: 741	Why do people assume that all the books in the Library of Alexandria had intelligent ideas in them? There's a tendency to mythologize things that are irrevocably lost, but the chances are that at least 90% of texts now lost to us contained superstitious mumbo-jumbo or trivial crap.

12-09-2004, 11:49 PM	#12
lenrek Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Singapore. Posts: 3,401	I heard of story where libraries being torched by Christian missionaries when they were spreading their faith in Central America (long time ago). Is this true? Were there libraries left behind by the Mesoamerica civilisations that were burnt?

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