FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-04-2006, 09:22 AM   #1
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 111
Default Extra Biblical Evidence For Jesus

http://www.probe.org/content/view/18/77


Not only do we have the eye witness account of the 11 disciples, but we have these early century writers that bore witness to the fact.

Yes and only one disciple died a natural death, the others were all murdered. Hmmm, they died poor and now some skeptics say mislead. How is that so? Have you noticed all of the leaders of anything, sacrifice themselves, preach the word, and then die in unspeakable ways?

Getting ran through with spears, heads smashed in, Peter was hung upside down on a cross in Rome, wasn't he?

Hardly something you would expect from men that were eye witnesses of a lie.
Patriarch Verlch is offline  
Old 06-04-2006, 09:25 AM   #2
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Space Station 33
Posts: 2,543
Default

duck...
xaxxat is offline  
Old 06-04-2006, 09:59 AM   #3
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 1,708
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriarch Verlch
http://www.probe.org/content/view/18/77


Not only do we have the eye witness account of the 11 disciples, but we have these early century writers that bore witness to the fact.

Yes and only one disciple died a natural death, the others were all murdered. Hmmm, they died poor and now some skeptics say mislead. How is that so? Have you noticed all of the leaders of anything, sacrifice themselves, preach the word, and then die in unspeakable ways?

Getting ran through with spears, heads smashed in, Peter was hung upside down on a cross in Rome, wasn't he?

Hardly something you would expect from men that were eye witnesses of a lie.
Wow, that's a whole lot of wrong. Perhaps some sort of record in a post so short. Care to back any of that up? You could start with your first sentence and then we'll move on from there. Where are these accounts?
Javaman is offline  
Old 06-04-2006, 10:02 AM   #4
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 1,708
Default

I tell you what, why don't you just provide the eyewitness testemony of one disciple.
Javaman is offline  
Old 06-04-2006, 10:03 AM   #5
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
Default

extra Biblical evidence for Jesus in BCH
Toto is offline  
Old 06-04-2006, 10:09 AM   #6
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 1,708
Default

No fair, Toto. You're jumping ahead.

Edit: Toto, it'd probably fit better in the thread to which you linked but was it Julian that maintained a site with a color-coded reference to Jesus' contemporaries that shoulda/coulda written about him? If so, do you have the link? I lost it in a computer move last year. If it's somebody else's, could I still have it? Gracias por la ayuda.
Javaman is offline  
Old 06-04-2006, 10:21 AM   #7
Moderator -
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Posts: 4,639
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriarch Verlch
http://www.probe.org/content/view/18/77


Not only do we have the eye witness account of the 11 disciples, but we have these early century writers that bore witness to the fact.

Yes and only one disciple died a natural death, the others were all murdered. Hmmm, they died poor and now some skeptics say mislead. How is that so? Have you noticed all of the leaders of anything, sacrifice themselves, preach the word, and then die in unspeakable ways?

Getting ran through with spears, heads smashed in, Peter was hung upside down on a cross in Rome, wasn't he?

Hardly something you would expect from men that were eye witnesses of a lie.
Hello. Patriarch Verlch, and welcome to IIDB. You have made a number of assertions grounded in Christian tradition which unfortunately are completely lacking in any historical evidence or corroboration, and in some cases are demonstrably incorrect.

To wit:

1. We do not possess the testimony of any disciple or any eyewitness of Jesus. Nothing in the New Testament was written by anyone who ever met Jesus.

2. There is no evidence that any disciple was ever martyred for his beliefs.

3. There is no evidence that any of the disciples (if they existed at all) ever made any supernatural claims about Jesus. ever claimed he had physically risen from the dead, ever claimed to have seen an empty tomb, ever claimed to have believed Jesus was God or ever claimed to have believed he was the Messiah. All of those claims were made decades after the alleged facts by people who never met Jesus and probably never met anyone else who ever met Jesus.
Diogenes the Cynic is offline  
Old 06-04-2006, 11:08 AM   #8
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
Default

Javaman:

Iasion maintains a helpful web page with color coding. Try this: The early evidence for Christianity or other pages from here.
Toto is offline  
Old 06-04-2006, 11:24 AM   #9
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 1,708
Default

That's it! Thanks much. Must have been an I/J thing in my head.
Javaman is offline  
Old 06-04-2006, 11:48 AM   #10
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: an inaccessible island fortress
Posts: 10,638
Default

Pat, although the bible keeps says 12 disciples it names 14. How can that be?
These guys are just all part of the story…the fictional story. They are no more eye witnesses to Jesus than the crowd who shouts “Look up in the sky! It’s a bird! It’s a plane! IT’S SUPERMAN!!!!” are eye witnesses to Clark Kent.
Would they be exposed to kryptonite by Lex Luthor if they didn't know Superman was real?
Biff the unclean is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:36 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.