Diogenes the Cynic

How do you know that Jesus said those things? The Gospels were written after the Jewish-Roman War and during a time when there was conflict between competing proto-Christian sects. The authors of the Gospels drafted Jesus' "prophecies" to fit their own agendas.

Julian

Sorry, but this is just silly.
Can you think of a time when many wars were not being fought? This isn't a prediction, it is a simple description of every era of human existence.
Fake messiahs have been around since before Jesus and continue until this day. There were a number of prophets named Jesus back in his day, as well. Lots of christianities using his name, later they became heresies. Not really a prediction.

You are very easy to impress. Anyone could be a messiah in your eyes with these vague requirements.
They are about as vague as they could possibly be. The time he lived in was wall-to-wall war all over the place. And it hasn't really stopped since. By the time the gospels were written we know from Paul that people were preaching in his name and, according to the proto-orthodox, deceiving many. They were just describing what was happening. You really need to start getting much more critical and not be so easily swayed. The two examples you gave are just about the the vaguest things that were ever attributed to Jesus.

Julian

revpo

I wouldnt worry about it, both othe old and nt are written by historians hundred years apart, wrote some historical facts, wrote what they wanted and the christian faith picked out what they wanted you to read and destroyed or hid the others...therefore dont worry the bible is what we call fables, some good stories, death destruction, killing of woman/children, its really not good reading

revpo

michael wellenberg

Now, Half-Life, I wonder if I am right with my impression that you try to secure and strengthen faith by defending it with "historical facts" provided by the NT?
Besides : there is little sense in using tools that are not prepared for such an imployment. Though it is legitimate, of course, to apply to the roots it seems unfruitful to use arguments which 1st century Christians might have employed towards their contemporary Jews and Gentiles.
2000 years of Christian development have elapsed since then.
Just for example, in 1st century fulfilled prophecies of the OT would have been regarded as fair evidence in a debate with Jewry, they are not today.

Michael

punk77

Congratulations Half-Life. You are at least starting to question what you have been told/taught . That is a good step. If, after examing all the evidence - pro and anti - for the bible and you still end up believing in Jesus/God I will have a lot more respect for you as a person than someone who is just 'parroting' their local minister/priest/shaman.

'I could not find anywhere in the Gospels or NT that says we must get to Heaven WHEN WE DIE'.

The bible is so contradictory that if you look hard enough or suspend logic you will be able to find a verse to back up whatever position you chose to take on any subject.

'Also, I'd like to make the argument for all you atheists out there who wonder what "this generation shall not pass" means. Jesus did not fail here. He was simply talking about his resurrection, not the second coming. He said, "there will be some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming." Jesus was right. The disciples did not die and they saw him come back from the dead'.

This link should address the above topic

http://www.secweb.org/index.aspx?action=viewAsset&id=86

Good luck:wave: .

punk77

Is this another way of saying that arguements that could win over credulous, uninformed people are of no use against people who now know a thing or two about science/conmen and have more information/knowledge on which to judge Christian claims.

Sven

Are you serious? :wide: Wars were thought at every time of human history. Saying that there will be wars isn't a prophecy, it is a triviality.

Will you please address the fact that these wars all were supposed to happen before he gets resurrected (according to your interpretation)?

This is also a triviality. It's a common human behavior to present oneself as backed up by a celebrity.

Will you please address the fact that this was supposed to happen before he gets resurrected (according to your interpretation)?

No. But trivial. Common knowledge.

What's the relevance of the time period? Do you seriously think that no wars were thought at this time?

Sven

Given the "logic" he employs for/against Christianity, I'm not sure if his "questioning" is worth a damn.

David B

Perhaps a bit of latitude can be allowed for people who might be quite bemused by finding that previous certainties are not build on such a solid platform as they thought.

Especially if they are very attached to them, and have yet to learn the basic science that regulars here, even if they started being sadly lacking in that side of education, have picked up.

I welcome Half Life's questioning, and hope that soon he will realise that losing his faith is liberating, and does not condemn him to immorality and ignorance.

David B

Julian

It should be noted that Half-life has a history of this. He starts a thread where he seems to question his faith and then suddenly a few pages later it turns that he really didn't and he goes back to his fundie arguments. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Julian