Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 07-14-2012, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

It is amazing to see such certainty being displayed for things i cant see reflected in the original source material. Must be an American thing

in my case much of my information is just tied to jewish residents in Galilee first century.

jewish tax resistance in Galilee was the norm

It would help the discussion if you gave your sources.

outhouse · 07-14-2012, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

in my case much of my information is just tied to jewish residents in Galilee first century.

jewish tax resistance in Galilee was the norm

It would help the discussion if you gave your sources.

sources that most Galileans were zealots?

isnt this common knowledge?

there were 4 different main groups of jews, you do know them?

Toto · 07-14-2012, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

It would help the discussion if you gave your sources.

sources that most Galileans were zealots?

isnt this common knowledge?

there were 4 different main groups of jews, you do know them?

Josephus claimed that there where more than 24 schools of philosophy, with three major ones, plus the zealots - if you believe him.

But are you arguing that "all" Galileans were zealots, Jesus was a Galiean, therefore Jesus was a zealot? Seriously?

outhouse · 07-14-2012, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

sources that most Galileans were zealots?

isnt this common knowledge?

there were 4 different main groups of jews, you do know them?

Josephus claimed that there where more than 24 schools of philosophy, with three major ones, plus the zealots - if you believe him.

But are you arguing that "all" Galileans were zealots, Jesus was a Galiean, therefore Jesus was a zealot? Seriously?

while there may have been 14 schools, there were 4 main groups that held the highest populations.

there was a tax war in Galilee while jesus was a child.

according to scripture

jesus was questioned about tax evasion

jesus had a issue with money in the temple

jesus was put on the cross for tax evasion

jesus called tax collectors sick

jesus preached to tax collectors trying to heal them

jesus got zacc to give back some of is tax revenue.

jesus said his people/sons are exempt from taxes and that foreigners should pay

jesus, in woe's of the Pharisees he calls them greedy

jesus apostle Simon was said to be a zealot

:huh:

now Galileans were transplanted Judeans.

Sicarii were based in Galilee

the talmud decribes zealots as "wild", or "ruffians", which mirrors JtB who jesus took after.

and then we have this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galilean

The Pharisaic criticism of Galileans is mirrored in the New Testament, in which Galilean religious passion is compared favorably against the minute concerns of Judean legal scholars, see for example Woes of the Pharisees. This was the heart of a friendly "crosstown" rivalry existing between Galilean Zealots and Judean Pharisees.

The Talmud says that Yohanan ben Zakkai, a great Pharisee of the first century, was assigned to a post in Galilee during his training. In eighteen years he was asked only two questions of Jewish law, causing him to lament "O Galilee, O Galilee, in the end you shall be filled with wrongdoers!" (Jerusalem Talmud Shabbat 16:7, 15d).

like it or not Galilee was a hotbed of zealotry, home to it actually.

what you need to ask yourself is, were these jews lovong being oppressed or fighting it. and rural Galileans are known for fighting it

Toto · 07-14-2012, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Josephus claimed that there where more than 24 schools of philosophy, with three major ones, plus the zealots - if you believe him.

But are you arguing that "all" Galileans were zealots, Jesus was a Galiean, therefore Jesus was a zealot? Seriously?

while there may have been 14 schools, there were 4 main groups that held the highest populations.

Because you believe Josephus?

Quote:

there was a tax war in Galilee while jesus was a child.

Therefore?

Quote:

according to scripture

jesus was questioned about tax evasion

and did not advocate any tax evasion

Quote:

jesus had a issue with money in the temple

He had an issue with impurity, not taxes or money.

Quote:

jesus was put on the cross for tax evasion

Not according to scripture

Quote:

jesus called tax collectors sick

Where?

Quote:

jesus preached to tax collectors trying to heal them

Just like others

Quote:

jesus got zacc to give back some of is tax revenue.

Only corruption

Zacchaeus

Quote:

Described as a short man, then Zacchaeus climbed up a sycamore fig tree so that he might be able to see Jesus. When Jesus reached the spot he looked up into the branches, addressed Zacchaeus by name, and told him to come down, for he intended to visit his house. The crowd was shocked that Jesus, a Jew, would sully himself by being a guest of a tax collector.

Moved by the audacity of Jesus's undeserved love and acceptance, Zacchaeus publicly repented of acts of corruption and vowed to make restitution for them, and held a feast at his house.

Quote:

jesus said his people/sons are exempt from taxes and that foreigners should pay

Where?

Quote:

jesus, in woe's of the Pharisees he calls them greedy

Greedy does not equal tax evasion.

Quote:

jesus apostle Simon was said to be a zealot

The apostles never understood what Jesus was saying.

Quote:

now Galileans were transplanted Judeans.

Sicarii were based in Galilee

the talmud decribes zealots as "wild", or "ruffians", which mirrors JtB who jesus took after.

Are you claiming that John the Baptist was a zealot? Seriously, dude?

Quote:

and then we have this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galilean

The Pharisaic criticism of Galileans is mirrored in the New Testament, in which Galilean religious passion is compared favorably against the minute concerns of Judean legal scholars, see for example Woes of the Pharisees. This was the heart of a friendly "crosstown" rivalry existing between Galilean Zealots and Judean Pharisees.

The Talmud says that Yohanan ben Zakkai, a great Pharisee of the first century, was assigned to a post in Galilee during his training. In eighteen years he was asked only two questions of Jewish law, causing him to lament "O Galilee, O Galilee, in the end you shall be filled with wrongdoers!" (Jerusalem Talmud Shabbat 16:7, 15d).

like it or not Galilee was a hotbed of zealotry, home to it actually.

what you need to ask yourself is, were these jews lovong being oppressed or fighting it. and rural Galileans are known for fighting it

So does it come down to Jesus was a Galilean, all Galileans were zealots, therefore?

stephan huller · 07-14-2012, 04:28 PM

I think outhouse is developing a new Tea Party religion. What`s next? Jesus`s healings were signs of divine opposition to socialized medicine?

Iskander · 07-14-2012, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Josephus claimed that there where more than 24 schools of philosophy, with three major ones, plus the zealots - if you believe him.

But are you arguing that "all" Galileans were zealots, Jesus was a Galiean, therefore Jesus was a zealot? Seriously?

while there may have been 14 schools, there were 4 main groups that held the highest populations.

there was a tax war in Galilee while jesus was a child.

according to scripture

jesus was questioned about tax evasion

jesus had a issue with money in the temple

jesus was put on the cross for tax evasion

jesus called tax collectors sick

jesus preached to tax collectors trying to heal them

jesus got zacc to give back some of is tax revenue.

jesus said his people/sons are exempt from taxes and that foreigners should pay

jesus, in woe's of the Pharisees he calls them greedy

jesus apostle Simon was said to be a zealot

:huh:

now Galileans were transplanted Judeans.

Sicarii were based in Galilee

the talmud decribes zealots as "wild", or "ruffians", which mirrors JtB who jesus took after.

and then we have this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galilean

The Pharisaic criticism of Galileans is mirrored in the New Testament, in which Galilean religious passion is compared favorably against the minute concerns of Judean legal scholars, see for example Woes of the Pharisees. This was the heart of a friendly "crosstown" rivalry existing between Galilean Zealots and Judean Pharisees.

The Talmud says that Yohanan ben Zakkai, a great Pharisee of the first century, was assigned to a post in Galilee during his training. In eighteen years he was asked only two questions of Jewish law, causing him to lament "O Galilee, O Galilee, in the end you shall be filled with wrongdoers!" (Jerusalem Talmud Shabbat 16:7, 15d).

like it or not Galilee was a hotbed of zealotry, home to it actually.

what you need to ask yourself is, were these jews lovong being oppressed or fighting it. and rural Galileans are known for fighting it

That Jesus was a Galilean rebel is a very well known and respected interpretation of the meaning of his life.

If one is to accept the possibility that the man Jesus ever lived on this earth as I am doing now , then if one accepts that, the only reasonable life style-- compatible with his death, the disappearance of his comrades after his death and the never ending lies of profiteers and carpetbaggers that grew rich adulterating his memory ,-- must be that he was a political activist claiming the be assisted by god.

Quote:

The apostles of Jesus

The first thing that we know about Jesus' apostles from the "Novum Testamentum Graece et Latine" and from the gospel of Mark is that they were called Boanerges, i.e., "Sons of Thunder".
"Peter, like all the other apostles was called Son of Thunder" (Novum Testamentum Graece et Latine).
"And James the son of Zebedee and John the brother of James; and he surnamed them Boanerges, which is, The sons of thunder." (Mark 3:17).
The fact that Jesus' apostles were called Boanerges, i.e., "Sons of Thunder" leads us to imagine them more as revolutionaries than as apostles preaching brotherhood and forgiveness.

(I) Simon, the first apostle
Simon the apostle has three appellatives: Barjona, Canaanite, and Cephas (Novum Testamentum Graece et Latine).
The meaning of these names is the following: Barjona (ßa????a )is the Greek translation of a word in Aramaic (a language spoken in Palestine during the Roman occupation) that meant "fugitive from justice" or "wanted". Canaanite is the Greek translation of the Hebrew "qanana" which corresponds to zealot, i.e. a revolutionary extremist. Cephas was given to him because of his stocky and muscular build that made him resemble a rock.

(2) James the Greater
There are no doubts as to the zealot nature of this apostle since we know that:

(3) John
John was also a Boanerges,

(4) Judas not Iscariot
We have learned from the Novum Testamentum that Judas (Jude) the apostle was not only called zealot but was also .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........................................

http://www.luigicascioli.eu/traduzio...u_apostoli.htm

stephan huller · 07-14-2012, 04:48 PM

But its an entirely modern interpretation. Tradition doesn't support this interpretation.

Iskander · 07-14-2012, 04:58 PM

Yes, yes, yes, it is tradition: eternal knowledge imposed on others by censorship of the soul and control of communication channels.

TRADITIOOOOOOOOOON.
Fiddler on the roof - Tradition ( with subtitles )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw

aa5874 · 07-14-2012, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskander

That Jesus was a Galilean rebel is a very well known and respected interpretation of the meaning of his life.

If one is to accept the possibility that the man Jesus ever lived on this earth as I am doing now , then if one accepts that, the only reasonable life style-- compatible with his death, the disappearance of his comrades after his death and the never ending lies of profiteers and carpetbaggers that grew rich adulterating his memory ,-- must be that he was a political activist claiming the be assisted by god....

Please, we had enough INVENTIONS. Surely you have NO sources at all for your claims.

The Jesus that was crucified in the NT DEFIED the Laws of Gravity and Buoyancy and the Biology of the Human anatomy.

Please let us do history. The character called Jesus of Nazareth is documented. Imagination and Presumptions are WORTHLESS.

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07-14-2012, 04:28 PM	#16
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	I think outhouse is developing a new Tea Party religion. What`s next? Jesus`s healings were signs of divine opposition to socialized medicine?

07-14-2012, 04:48 PM	#18
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	But its an entirely modern interpretation. Tradition doesn't support this interpretation.

07-14-2012, 04:58 PM	#19
Iskander Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 3,619	Yes, yes, yes, it is tradition: eternal knowledge imposed on others by censorship of the soul and control of communication channels. TRADITIOOOOOOOOOON. Fiddler on the roof - Tradition ( with subtitles ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw

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