DoubtingDave

Greetings,
I was speaking to Matt Slick and it appears that he does not believe that God is omnibenevolent. What verses in the bible specifically say that God is all loving?

hjalti

There probably isn't any such verse. But there is the verse that talks about god being love (1 John 4:16).

But Matt thinks that torturing non-elect children eternally is compatible with "being love". Nice guy!

DoubtingDave

Yup. I'm getting ready to write an article on the Problem of Hell.

Zenaphobe

I'd agree with hjalti, there isn't any verse that says God is omnibenevolent, but 1 John 4:16 does say "God is love".

I think the hard part in discussing the issue of omnibenevolence is getting a good definition of what constitutes "love". At the end of the day, I think the Christian who wants to remain consistent has to allow that eternal torment in hell for the lost is an expression of divine love. Hell isn't an afterthought to an omniscient God, it must have been part and parcel of God's plan from eternity.

Perhaps you can link your paper here when you get it finished?

hjalti

That twisting of love is so creepy, reminds me of "miniluv" from 1984 or the crazy lady in Misery. At least the calvinists (like the apologist in question) says that god hates the people he's torturing in hell.

I think the calvinist can try to wiggle out, saying "god is love" is rather vague.

DoubtingDave

Sure, I'll do that.

Thundril

There's nothing in the Bible to say God is omnibenevolent. What's more, there's nothing in the Bible about people burning forever in Hell, either; that's a medieval European invention.
The NT refers to 'Gehenna', (a rubbish dump where the bodies of criminals were burnt, apparently), and to Hades, the Greek land of the Dead, one part (out of three) is, in Greek story, the Tartarus of eternal torture. But Luke, a Greek, uses Hades in his writing referring to the life after death; Hades also includes the Elysian Fields and the Plain of Asphodel. if Luke had intended to invoke and image of 'Hell' as in modern sense of place of damnation and fire, he would have written 'Tartarus'; and he didn't.
So although, as an atheist, I enjoy poking holes in religious thought, the 'Good God wouldn't torture people forever in Hell' is only good for poking fun at Xians or Muslims with a medieval European superstitious world-view. It's no use for attacking the Bible itself.
But fear not; there are plenty of ways the bible can be poked at successfully. It's just that the 'Good God/ Hell Torturer' mode of attack doesn't really work.
Surprised more Xians don't take this line of defence.

sotto voce

What does Mr Slick say about this?

dockeen

Actually, the way it is framed is even more troubling - it is usually phrased
"God is too much of a gentleman to force someone to hang out with him,
so if they don't want to, he honors their request" (and frys them for eternity)

dockeen

Many don't want to. The LOVE them some hell.