Mochan

Christians often refer to the God of the old testament as Yahweh but it's funny how the God in the NT is no longer referred to as such. Why the change? Does it have anything to do with the OT being mostly based on ancient Judaic works while the NT is a totally Christian thing?

Does it have anything to do with the tetragrammaton in Kabbalism which is aptly named YHVH? Which while it does refer to something of an ultimate creator of the universe, is not quite the same concept as the Christian God we have today?

Did Christians simply not know what the Kabbalists were referring to as YHVH in the Old Testament, resulting in modern day Christians simply thinking YHVH or Yahweh was the name for the NT god and thus their current deity?


What I guess I'm getting at is that I don't know much about the Qabbalah, is there anyone here well-versed in the lore who can explain what YHWH really means? I use the name in the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram but I don't really understand it.

The Evil One

Because Yahweh is a Hebrew name which was never pronounced aloud anyway because of a taboo. You would just say "Adonai" instead (means "Lord"). The NT, however, was written in Greek, so they used "theo-" ("God") or "kyri-" ("Lord") instead.

Yahweh is spelt YHVH (or YHWH) in Hebrew, because ancient Hebrew had no vowels. Therefore it was referred to as "the four-letter name", or in Greek, "Tetragrammaton". Kabbalism is a later Jewish mystical movement based on a somewhat unusual interpretation of the Old Testament.

in short, Yahweh = YHWH = tetragrammaton. It's the same thing.

The modern English rendering is "Jehovah" -- just another pronunciation of the same name, filtered through German, although scholars of Hebrew prefer "Yahweh" because it's closer to how we think YHWH was originally pronounced.

No two beleivers have exactly the same concept of God. The ancient Jews had one, modern Jews have another, modern Christians another, Kabbalists yet another. And so on.

Kabbalists didn't write the OT. Kabbalists came along later. YHWH has always been the Hebrew name for God.

Although you can't get them to agree on the nature of their God, one thing they are all very certain about, if you ask them, is that it is the same God right the way through. (Well, except the Gnostics.) The "God of Abraham" is one way it is usually put.

Some have proposed that it is derived from a form of the verb "be" in Hebrew, so it means "I AM" or something like that. I am far from sure that the evidence is strong enough for that. Others have proposed that it was the name of a warrior-god in the pre-monotheistic Hebrew pantheon, who merged with the supreme god El to produce the modern God of monotheism.

But regardless of where it comes from, what it really means is, "the name of the God of Abraham".

Normally this is where I would start ranting about how there is not a shred of evidence that magic works. But let's put that on hold a moment. You, apparently, believe that there is such a thing as magic rituals, and they work and you use mystical names in them, and these names have power.... and YOU USE THEM WITHOUT KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT THEM?? Wow. Just wow.

Osbert

IHVH - If there were an infinitive form in Hebrew of the verb "to be", this would be it, but as it happens, the "being" verb is the only one in Hebrew that has no customarily-used infinitive form.
It is supposed to signify existence every breath you take is borrowed life from God: you inhale IH and you exhale VH

AHIH (Eheih) is the unmanifested cosmic principle(God before the Creation) while IHVH is the manifested cosmic principle (the Creation itself).
It also represents the four cardinal points, the four elements, and the four worlds.
The Name may be transposed in twelve different ways, all of which mean "to be." The twelve transpositions are known as the "twelve banners of the mighty name," and are said to represent the twelve signs of the Zodiac. The "twelve simple letters" of the Hebrew Alphabet.

lenrek

This is a more biblical than EoG discussion. Thread moved.

Loomis

Your posts are excellent - but doesn’t this seem far fetched to you?

Never?

Got a link?

The Evil One

Post in haste, repent in leisure. Never is an overstatement. The High Priest was, as I recall, allowed to say it in the Holy of Holies once a year. And presumably there were occasional transgressors, as there are for any taboo. Furthermore, there must have been a time before the taboo developed when it was spoken openly, or else the word would never have existed in the first place.

I don't have a link - this is all recalled from general knowledge books I read years ago in paper form. I am by no means a specialist, I just have a good memory for fascinating if useless facts.

Loomis

Sure. We’ve all heard it a million times. But how did the taboo come about?

Who started it and why?

What is the stronger motivator to stop saying “Yahweh?”

1. It pisses off Yahweh when you call him Yahweh?
   
   
2. It pisses off Baal (the LORD) when you call him Yahweh?

Loomis

I’m not sure where I stand of this “Elohistic Psalter” guy, but if what they say about him is true, then doesn’t that suggest that the “taboo” regarding Yahweh’s name went further than just saying it?

Toto

Primitive people ascribe power to names. It's a sort of sympathetic magic.

You might find the answer in Joseph Lewis' discussion of the 3rd commandment

The Evil One

Taboos on the name of God(s) are common in many different cultures. In Europe, for example, the normal words for many totem-animals became taboo. This is why Germanic languages have a word for "bear" which is derived from "brown one", rather than the original Indo-European root, and why several European languages have developed new words for "weasel" in the past 1500 years, likewise based on euphemisms. (Is it Spanish that has a word derived from the phrase "little fairy"? I forget.) Anyway the Hebrew situation is entirely normal in this respect.

Even in modern culture this tradition of word-power has survived. "Speak of the Devil!" we exclaim, not realising that "speak of the Devil and he comes" was once a serious belief. It applied to gods too. In the many times and places where god(s) were not considered necessarily benevolent, saying their name(s) would attract their attention, and you didn't want to do that without cause - they might curse you for it.

Surveys of students in Britain have shown that the average offensiveness rating they give to hearing the word "fuck" is higher than the average offensiveness rating they would give to seeing two people copulating in front of them. Word power, you see.