outhouse

I know, i said it first, and identical to what you wrote

sorry you didnt like it shortened from your version


false jesus as written didnt exist

his name was Joshua written Yehoshua, he grew up and lived and died as Joshua


he was never called jesus while alive, and would have never knew that name. Nor son of god.

or anthing other then Joshua the teacher/healer


A man who's birth and childhood and teen age years are unknown.

A man called Joshua who we only know about the last year of his life and barely can dertermine anything with certainty.

A Galilean traveling teacher healer from Nazareth who had 3-4 followers who were fishermen. He taught and healed for food scaps for survival. He had caused a stink in the temple over money the lack of it and the greed and corruption of the jewish governement due to the roman infection all suffered under. he diedand was martyred in front of 400,000 possible witnesses that helped to spread hi slegend like a shooting star in judaism and gentiles. The fire quickly faded in judaism, and tinder ignited among the god-fearers who worshipped judaism but would not convert. god-fearers responsible for christianity often called themselves devote jews like Paul, but were never full converts to the religion despite their own beliefs they were were jews.

Clivedurdle

You will find it is fully God fully Man.

outhouse

sounds like half of each to me

2 into 1


either way it makes no difference what the theological view is, none of us here follow it.

its useless to proclaim what another is believing or following when the even the theist cannot make up their minds.







sorry for the derail Stephen, but your OP doesnt have the possibility of being accurate

stephan huller

Catholic does not mean "commonly accepted." It literally means "according to the whole" and can denote a treasury.

stephan huller

How does my OP have no possibility of being correct? How is anything but a supernatural crucifixion going to save people?

Clivedurdle

Outhouse. it is xian maths

outhouse

being hung up on a cross for tax dodging and trying to inciting a riot during passover would get most any jew hung on a cross.

nothing special there in a normal crucifixion.



the supernatural is a later added element surronding misinterpretation of a spiritual resurrection that is supernatural.

outhouse

the student of Chu Yan, triangle ect ect

sotto voce

There's no reason to believe something supernatural just because it's unusual, is there? Perfectly healthy people drop dead while shopping, or playing sport, for no reason that is apparent. Nobody says, "It's supernatural."

As noted for centuries, the obvious cause of the early death of Jesus was perception of abandonment, as expressed by him. It's enough to cause heart failure, even without flogging and crucifixion. A natural cause, therefore. If Jesus was actually perfect man taking the blame for everyone else, no other person can imagine what that is like. If this was the case, the early death was natural, but unique, and completely untestable by science.

But this crucifixion would never have been heard of had the crucified person not been supposed to be both fully man and fully God; because those characteristics were necessary if there was to be atonement, and there would have been no gospel about anything less than atonement. Jesus of Nazareth would have been an antiquarian's curio, had the perception been anything less.

stephan huller

show me evidence of a remembrance of Jesus that doesn't begin with the assumption that he was able to magically or miraculously save people. Then show me evidence of a remembrance of Jesus saving the rest of us (= not characters in the gospel narrative) which doesn't assume this 'miraculous salvation' was accomplished through his death. In short there is no reason to believe that his death was not regarded as miraculous ever at any time.

Of course the only answer is the Islamic tradition but even here the crucifixion is still miraculous. The 'miraculous crucifixion' is just divorced from Jesus and saving people. Nevertheless the original superstition is still there is an emasculated form.