TedM

If we assume some man named Jesus was crucified, what might explain the rise of Christianity from such an event? Doesn't this likely imply something about how that man was perceived? What do you think would be some minimum reasonable conclusions about the man or his death?

ted

Toto

I would think it would have less to do with how the man was perceived, and more to do with what the needs of the population were. If you need a hero-savior, you tend to project those qualities on someone.

TedM

Ok, I assume you think the early Christians would not have projected positive qualities on someone they perceived had been a true criminal--a thief or murderer, right? Why might they have projected qualities on this particular man? Would the reason for crucifixion have been a factor? How about the timing of the crucifixion? How about the reputation of the man? How about the man's prior beliefs? Just curious as to what scenarios you think would make it work. Again, this is all under the assumption that such a man really existed.

ted

Toto

There's a lot of room for imagination but no real facts to work with. The crucified man could have been a military-religious leader or a political agitator. He only needed one or two good friends to imagine that he was still speaking to them, for their own reasons.

freigeister

Here is how Spinoza accounts for it:

God manifested Himself to the Apostles through the mind of Christ as He formerly did to Moses through the supernatural voice. In this sense the voice of Christ, like the voice which Moses heard, may be called the voice of God, and it may be said that the wisdom of God (i.e. wisdom more than human) took upon itself in Christ human nature, and that Christ was the way of salvation.

countjulian

One messed up dude, Saul of Tarsus, has visions of him, and convinces everyone else that the visions are real.

NOGO

I was going to start a thread on "how do you go from resurrection to Christianity?" Yours is a bit more down to earth.

I think that you will need a lot of midrash.
Christianity came out of the Jewish Scriptures not from any man called Jesus.

Peter Watts

A Jewish carpenter, a commoner who never even wrote anything down and then died a criminal's death on a cross, doesn't exactly fit the bill for a hero-savior.
People who create hero-saviors tend to build them up as mighty and strong, going off and slaying a minotaur or performing labors.
A guy who gets crucified, then tells his followers to take up their own crosses and follow him, doesn't sound like any normal invention by the population.
Heck, there is more reason to believe Alexander the Great was a creation than Jesus.

Boomeister

I thought Spinoza was Jewish. Am I confusing him with another Spinoza maybe?

Boomeister

Amaleq13

I would say Christianity rose more from claims of a risen Christ.

I think it implies more about those who first preached the gospel of the risen Christ. It implies that they were very convincing preachers, respected personalities, and/or had an audience that was eager to accept what they were being taught.

If we assume the first apostles knew him, I think we have to assume he was loved by them. Not enough to die with him but certainly enough to convince themselves he had been resurrected.