arnoldo

I guess the Jewish scribes forgot to *edit* that obvious mistake that Tyre continued to exist?

spin

As the original contexts of the prophetic texts were lost, their significances were also lost. And when you're not looking for anything wrong in your sacred texts, you don't find anything, do you, arnoldo?


spin

Sheshonq

What Jewish scribes did or didn't do is really beside the point.

1. The prophecy says one thing.
2. History, archaeology and reality say something totally different.
3. That really is the end of the argument.

All that is left is for you to figure out how you plan to reconcile this failed prophecy with your own beliefs.

arnoldo

So you agree that the book of Ezekiel was written after the death of Alexander the Great in 323BC ?

makerowner

WTF? I think you skipped a couple steps in your deduction there.

Johnny Skeptic

Of course not. By that time, too many people knew about the previous version.

What evidence do you have that the prophecy was written before the events, and was not revised?

No rational person person would predict that "a king of kings" would enter the streets of Tyre, tear down its towers, and fail to defeat Tyre.

Why didn't Ezekiel mention Alexander? Wouldn't that have strengthened the faith of Jews, and the faith of Christians who are alive today?

Why did God inspire Ezekiel to write the Tyre prophecy?

Huguenot

So what?

You still don't have a clure what Ezekiel prophecies in Chapters 26, 27, and 28.

The prophecy is againt the Phoenicians not against a physical set of walls and streets.

Huguenot

You are wrong, and quite simply wrong, because you never understood the prophecy from the get go.

The point is that Nebby was ONE of the agents of Tyre's destruction. Like Till (and other skeptics), you've repeatedly tried to lump Tyre's downfall solely on Babylon. The prophecy makes no indication that such would be the case.

Phoenician Tyre is no more. Their empire is no more; their trade is no more; their wealth is no more; their once-awesome "Queen of the Seas" navy is no more; their language is no more; their religion is no more; their culture is no more. In fact, to this very day, Tyre is a fishing port (sound familiar?).

That applies to one race of people and one race of people only, the Phoenicians. Furthermore, you forget that Tyre was the HEART of the Phoenician empire. Historians mark the end of the Phoenician empire with Alexander's conquest of Tyre.

One read of chapter 26 (along with 27 and 28) - even for a High School student - and you will find the truth. The Phoenicians are dead or enslaved; mainland Tyre was literally scraped bare when Alex made his bridge; island Tyre was nearly burned to the ground. Alexandria replaced Tyre as the world's #1 seaport. To top it all off, the Phoenician language, heritage, and culture got systematically wiped out of existence within a century or two.

Based on that, the words "Thou shalt be built no more" (which points dead at the Phoenicians, not the Greeks, Romans, or anyone else) are quite fitting.

Go and read the Bible!

makerowner

Ez. 26:4 "They shall destroy the walls of Tyre, and break down her towers; and I will scrape her soil from her, and make her a bare rock."
Ez. 26:9-12: "He will direct the shock of his battering rams against your walls, and with his axes he will break down your towers. His horses will be so many that their dust will cover you; your walls will shake at the noise of the horsemen and wagons and chariots, when he enters your gates as one enters a city which has been breached. With the hoofs of his horses he will trample all your streets; he will slay your people with the sword; and your mighty pillars will fall to the ground. They will make a spoil of your riches and a prey of your merchandise; they will break down your walls and destroy your pleasant houses; your stones and timber and soil they will cast into the midst of the waters."

It does in fact seem to be about "a physical set of walls and streets", as well as towers, houses, gates, pillars, etc. Nice try though.

makerowner

You know, posting the same shit over and over again doesn't make it right.

Wrong: "For thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will bring upon Tyre from the north Nebuchadrez'zar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, and with horsemen and a host of many soldiers. He will slay with the sword your daughters on the mainland; he will set up a siege wall against you, and throw up a mound against you, and raise a roof of shields against you. He will direct the shock of his battering rams against your walls, and with his axes he will break down your towers. His horses will be so many that their dust will cover you; your walls will shake at the noise of the horsemen and wagons and chariots, when he enters your gates as one enters a city which has been breached. With the hoofs of his horses he will trample all your streets; he will slay your people with the sword; and your mighty pillars will fall to the ground." (Ez. 26:7-11 RSV)

The city is still there, as you can see in the satellite pictures on Google Earth. It's populated by the descendants of the Phoenicians.

They were never a major military power. Modern Tyre is much more than a fishing port, it's the 4th largest city in Lebanon. And besides all that, it was supposed to be a bare rock remember? With no one living there? Never to be rebuilt? Oh, woops, that didn't happen.

The Phoenicians were never politically united; they were independent city-states. I don't know what historians you're talking about, but there was no Phoenician empire for Tyre's capture to be the end of.

Tyre survived the attack by Nebuchadrezzar that was supposed to destroy it; they rebuilt shortly after Alexander conquered it (without destroying it BTW); the Phoenician language survived until the 7th century AD, so if you consider 1000 years "a century or two" then I guess you're right.

No, it's directed at Tyre, saying that Tyre shall be built no more. It was in fact rebuilt by Phoenicians after Alexander's conquest of it, as well as by Muslims, Crusaders, etc. in the intervening millennia during which it was continuously populated.

Take your own advice, but do it without your blinders on.

[PS: Writing stuff bigger doesn't make it more convincing. It just makes you look like a jerk.]