Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Gracchus · 07-31-2007, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pappy Jack

Quote:

Originally Posted by RED DAVE

And since praxeus continues to post on other threads, let me remind him of his unfinished business, undealt with now for about five months........RED DAVE

Red Dave, it's beginning to look like the YEC side of the argument is being conceded by absence. Likewise at the threads on Pre-Flood Patriarchs and YEC population projections. Do these count as technical KOs? :devil1:

They count as routs. I predict that praxeus will never acknowledge these unanswered questions, but will be back making the same unsupportable statements about the flood either here, after a suitable delay for memories to fade, or in some other forum.

:wave:

Vicious Love · 07-31-2007, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gracchus

They count as routs. I predict that praxeus will never acknowledge these unanswered questions, but will be back making the same unsupportable statements about the flood either here, after a suitable delay for memories to fade, or in some other forum.

:wave:

As of last month, there's a file on my desktop called "Pending.txt" in anticipation of exactly that. It's got names, links to threads, and keywords to remind me exactly which unsupported assertion is where. It won't make afdave or praxeus any more honest, but I figure it might be good for a laugh.

07-31-2007, 03:33 AM

Funny you should mention that. I've been seriously thinking of doing a catalogue (with sub-folders, links, etc.) on a certain someone. Sooner or later it's sure to be a handy reference.

Paul2 · 07-31-2007, 05:27 AM

... stalkers.

Stephen T-B · 07-31-2007, 07:02 AM

Getting back to the Flood (because I love that topic) - I am continually astonished that any “educated” person might think such a thing could happen.

Since ancient peoples, including the Jews, had very limited knowledge of what constitutes the World, how could any of them have known a world-wide flood occurred? How did the Jews know what was happening in Scandinavia, Siberia, Australia, China, the Americas etc etc etc when they had no idea that anything existed more than a few thousand miles away?

The Ark must have been a very large craft; Creationists should ask themselves (but for obvious reasons won’t) where Noah and his family got the timber from to build it, how they turned it into planks and built the damn thing with just their own labour. It must be borne in mind that according to the story, all his neighbours thought he was crazy - so no help there. And no help from his extended family, or those who did help would have demanded a place on the Ark when the rain began.
You might think (but Creationists don’t) that the very-large assemblage of animals must have got people wondering a bit: lions, elephants, tigers, hyenas, polar bears, giant sloths, hippos, rhinos and so on, all milling around waiting for their turn to get on board.
Their arrival, coupled with a deluge which began to flood everything, might be expected to have prompted the scoffers to think that perhaps Noah wasn’t mad after all, and to try sneaking on board. Did Mr and Mrs Noah and their sons have to beat them back? And as the water rose, did Noah and his wife wave to their parents and grandparents and great-grandparents and great-great grandparents (people did live an awful long time in those days, apparently) and all their cousins as the water rose up around their necks and began to drown them?

This rhyme by Marriott Edgar ( http://itsbullfrog.com/guests/edgar/threehapence.htm ) about hits the nail on the head.

Dave Hawkins · 07-31-2007, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pappy Jack

Just to keep things ticking over - and to try and lay to rest Dave's continuing belief that the coded incorporation of pi into the dimensions of Khufu's Pyramid is in some way proof of the 'advanced knowledge' of its architects and builders.

Here Jim Loy has listed 15 height/width ratios for pyramids with different slopes and worked out what 'concealed' numeric constants may be incorporated in them. Here are four of those as taster, two either side of Khufu's Pyramid with Khufu's included for comparison. All these are accurate to within about 0.01:

height/width ratio

0.600 - height/diagonal of base = phi/4; slanting height/base = pi/4
0.625 - height/width = 1/phi
0.636 (KP) - width/height = pi/2; slanting height/width = phi/2
0.650 - slanting height/height = square root (phi)
0.675 - slanting edge/width = pi/2

In other words, you can find pretty much any 'significant' result you want if you have enough data and are prepared to manipulate it enough.

OK. Time to debunk some more nonsense. What in the world is "slanting height"? Do you mean the length of the hypoteneuse of a diagonal semi-section? Or what? Please also clarify "slanting edge."

Dave Hawkins · 07-31-2007, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen T-B

Getting back to the Flood (because I love that topic) - I am continually astonished that any “educated” person might think such a thing could happen.

Since ancient peoples, including the Jews, had very limited knowledge of what constitutes the World, how could any of them have known a world-wide flood occurred? How did the Jews know what was happening in Scandinavia, Siberia, Australia, China, the Americas etc etc etc when they had no idea that anything existed more than a few thousand miles away?

The Ark must have been a very large craft; Creationists should ask themselves (but for obvious reasons won’t) where Noah and his family got the timber from to build it, how they turned it into planks and built the damn thing with just their own labour. It must be borne in mind that according to the story, all his neighbours thought he was crazy - so no help there. And no help from his extended family, or those who did help would have demanded a place on the Ark when the rain began.
You might think (but Creationists don’t) that the very-large assemblage of animals must have got people wondering a bit: lions, elephants, tigers, hyenas, polar bears, giant sloths, hippos, rhinos and so on, all milling around waiting for their turn to get on board.
Their arrival, coupled with a deluge which began to flood everything, might be expected to have prompted the scoffers to think that perhaps Noah wasn’t mad after all, and to try sneaking on board. Did Mr and Mrs Noah and their sons have to beat them back? And as the water rose, did Noah and his wife wave to their parents and grandparents and great-grandparents and great-great grandparents (people did live an awful long time in those days, apparently) and all their cousins as the water rose up around their necks and began to drown them?

This rhyme by Marriott Edgar ( http://itsbullfrog.com/guests/edgar/threehapence.htm ) about hits the nail on the head.

And I am equally astonished that modern educated people DON'T think such a thing could happen, given the abundance of evidence for it. You have not done much reading of creationist materials, have you?

hyzer · 07-31-2007, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afdave

And I am equally astonished that modern educated people DON'T think such a thing could happen, given the abundance of evidence for it. You have not done much reading of creationist materials, have you?

Dave - it was creationists that figured out that the flood did not happen.

shirley knott · 07-31-2007, 07:35 AM

Indeed, Dave, Christian creationists with a commitment to truth and evidence. They did it a few hundred years ago, and nothing has changed, other than an expanding awareness of the manifold problems of any claim to a global flood.
Were you not paying attention when all your 'evidence' was shown to be lies, distortions, and frauds?
Have you not yet grasped BWE's point that in this day and age, YEC notions are inherently dishonest?
Do you seriously expect that we have not noticed the mountain of objections you have fled from rather than address? Everything from consilience to heat effects of any possible source for the flood?

no hugs for thugs,
Shirley Knott

thadiusdean · 07-31-2007, 07:44 AM

All I have to ask is this: how were these civilizations able to confidently claim it was a universal flood? I'd suspect that the distance between them and lack of technology to travel long distances kept them from communicating with other cultures for a fair bit of time. And when they did arrive, if they did, and asked "did you guys have a crazy flood?" I'd suspect they would easily be able to say "yes" given RED DAVE's point that most of these civilizations would experience flooding often.

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07-31-2007, 03:33 AM	#693
mung bean Guest Posts: n/a	Funny you should mention that. I've been seriously thinking of doing a catalogue (with sub-folders, links, etc.) on a certain someone. Sooner or later it's sure to be a handy reference.

07-31-2007, 05:27 AM	#694
Paul2 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,088	... stalkers.

07-31-2007, 07:02 AM	#695
Stephen T-B Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 5,878	Getting back to the Flood (because I love that topic) - I am continually astonished that any “educated” person might think such a thing could happen. Since ancient peoples, including the Jews, had very limited knowledge of what constitutes the World, how could any of them have known a world-wide flood occurred? How did the Jews know what was happening in Scandinavia, Siberia, Australia, China, the Americas etc etc etc when they had no idea that anything existed more than a few thousand miles away? The Ark must have been a very large craft; Creationists should ask themselves (but for obvious reasons won’t) where Noah and his family got the timber from to build it, how they turned it into planks and built the damn thing with just their own labour. It must be borne in mind that according to the story, all his neighbours thought he was crazy - so no help there. And no help from his extended family, or those who did help would have demanded a place on the Ark when the rain began. You might think (but Creationists don’t) that the very-large assemblage of animals must have got people wondering a bit: lions, elephants, tigers, hyenas, polar bears, giant sloths, hippos, rhinos and so on, all milling around waiting for their turn to get on board. Their arrival, coupled with a deluge which began to flood everything, might be expected to have prompted the scoffers to think that perhaps Noah wasn’t mad after all, and to try sneaking on board. Did Mr and Mrs Noah and their sons have to beat them back? And as the water rose, did Noah and his wife wave to their parents and grandparents and great-grandparents and great-great grandparents (people did live an awful long time in those days, apparently) and all their cousins as the water rose up around their necks and began to drown them? This rhyme by Marriott Edgar ( http://itsbullfrog.com/guests/edgar/threehapence.htm ) about hits the nail on the head.

07-31-2007, 07:35 AM	#699
shirley knott Regular Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 416	Indeed, Dave, Christian creationists with a commitment to truth and evidence. They did it a few hundred years ago, and nothing has changed, other than an expanding awareness of the manifold problems of any claim to a global flood. Were you not paying attention when all your 'evidence' was shown to be lies, distortions, and frauds? Have you not yet grasped BWE's point that in this day and age, YEC notions are inherently dishonest? Do you seriously expect that we have not noticed the mountain of objections you have fled from rather than address? Everything from consilience to heat effects of any possible source for the flood? no hugs for thugs, Shirley Knott

07-31-2007, 07:44 AM	#700
thadiusdean Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 61	All I have to ask is this: how were these civilizations able to confidently claim it was a universal flood? I'd suspect that the distance between them and lack of technology to travel long distances kept them from communicating with other cultures for a fair bit of time. And when they did arrive, if they did, and asked "did you guys have a crazy flood?" I'd suspect they would easily be able to say "yes" given RED DAVE's point that most of these civilizations would experience flooding often.

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